"The truth is that not expensing options makes no sense. It is a cost that will be incurred at some point and you have to disclose that anyways. To say it goes into footnotes, but not the numbers is patently ridiculous."


yeah i agree. well stated.


"The fact is the numbers are a joke because its all about spin. Earnings numbers are silly and make no big difference if you want to really value a firm."


interesting.


"That is the truth no one seems to want to admit these days. That is why I went on as I did about WCOM and others. Earnings lies are just catching the execs in window dressing that didn't work out. The market is so obsessed with what happened in the past that I just almost pull my hair out."


interesting point and i agree for the most part but do take an exception which ill discuss subsequently. the fact the wcom was cooking the books shouldnt have been a big surprise nor should it be a big surprise that other companies are doing it. youre right it happened in the past and all you can do now as get a evaluate companies goin forward. the thing i would take debate with you in a friendly way is that estimating growth potential does seem to have something to do with past performance. also the use of debatable accounting practices does put into question what the companies are really doin.


"Someone needs to tell me what it really matters, outside of integrity issues, if a company made 10 cents or 20 cents two years ago! Its in the past and it matters little to what the future of the company will bring. If you buy WCOM stock today, you are most certainly not buying inflated earnings of two years ago!"


most true although I would say the wcom debt have been affected a great deal. often i find the debt issues more interestin than the stock.


"Simple truth, amazing to me how no one seems to understand this. People just need to remember that valuation is all about the future cash flow potential of a company, little else matters including their window dressing earnings."


true but i think the problem many have is getting a good understanding of future cash flow is hard when there is so much window dressin.