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Limit Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes Hold'em

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QTip
newbie


Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 31
Nasty turn card changes the plan
      #3451284 - 09/20/05 09:34 AM

villain is extremely loose and quite aggressive

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, J.
7 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) Q, A, 7 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 7 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) 6 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB


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thejameser
addict


Reged: 03/15/05
Posts: 410
Loc: I'm a FAG:Frugal Aggressive(No...
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3451308 - 09/20/05 09:38 AM

since he is seemingly too aggressive to follow the raise/fold to a 3 bet line i think calling down is good.

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sean c
enthusiast


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 391
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3451310 - 09/20/05 09:38 AM

Nice hand. I like it as long as a bet goes in on every street. If it was the seven of diamonds or clubs you were raising the turn right?

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jskills
old hand


Reged: 11/19/04
Posts: 769
Loc: in your Mom
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3451323 - 09/20/05 09:40 AM

So your plan was to raise the turn on a safe card (non-spade or not a 7 or Q)?

Nothing else you can do but call down I guess. I hate playing against LAGs sometimes. You're either dragging a huge pot or watching it go the wrong way to an idiot.


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toss
veteran


Reged: 09/30/04
Posts: 1327
Loc: 2+2 Archives Digging up Gold
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3451536 - 09/20/05 10:14 AM

Hmmmm I'm thinking about how much value there is in raise/calling the river.

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crunchy1
old hand


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 785
Loc: Boogie Woogie!!
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: toss]
      #3451818 - 09/20/05 10:54 AM

Quote:

Hmmmm I'm thinking about how much value there is in raise/calling the river.



I want to think that there's a lot of value in raising the river - but, I'm not confident that there is. The biggest thing I'm struggling with is the read:

Quote:

villain is extremely loose and quite aggressive



If he's so aggressive - why is he open-limping in the SB PF? Wouldn't an aggressive player who hit the flop somehow try to c/r you off your hand on the flop or turn?

If you're missing value by not raising this river it can't be much. I do think that it's probably worthwhile to pop the river every once in awhile against the right player - I'm not sure if this Villian fits-the-bill or not.


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flair1239
enthusiast


Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 343
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3451980 - 09/20/05 11:20 AM

I don't see this as a WA/WB situation, as much as it is a "I can't really put him on a hand" situation.

On the flop he could be betting a A, Q, 7, flush draw, gut shot, or just betting nothing.

The turn is kind of the same way except for now a portion of the hands he is betting now beat us.

I guess I am doing the same thing (calling down). Reason being, on the turn he is aggressive enough, where he could 3-bet a worse hand. The pot is very small, so giving him a relatively cheap draw is not a big deal. Also, being that he is aggressive, he may fire again at the river, with a hand we beat, whereas a raise on the turn might just push him off a worse hand that he was planning to bet again.

On the river I think you can make a strong case for a raise. Because his looseness would suggest (provided we are not just talking about pre-flop looseness... for this decision I would want to see WTSD/W$SD stats, as well as river aggression... preferably by PAHUD where you can see the times he raised the river), that he may call a raise with MP or a worse Ace. Because the thing is I think on the river we can fold to a 3-bet, because without a flush or a 7 that board has to be scary to him as well. But as I said it depends just how aggressive he is. Might be weak on my part, but I need a fairly comfortable read to make the raise and fold. So I am calling down the majority of the time, except when I have enough info to be comfortable.... but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.


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QTip
newbie


Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 31
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: crunchy1]
      #3452047 - 09/20/05 11:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hmmmm I'm thinking about how much value there is in raise/calling the river.



I want to think that there's a lot of value in raising the river - but, I'm not confident that there is. The biggest thing I'm struggling with is the read:

Quote:

villain is extremely loose and quite aggressive



If he's so aggressive - why is he open-limping in the SB PF? Wouldn't an aggressive player who hit the flop somehow try to c/r you off your hand on the flop or turn?

If you're missing value by not raising this river it can't be much. I do think that it's probably worthwhile to pop the river every once in awhile against the right player - I'm not sure if this Villian fits-the-bill or not.




I think getting 3 bet on the river would be horrible, cuz I refuse to fold this hand to him.


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flair1239
enthusiast


Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 343
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3452147 - 09/20/05 11:42 AM

Quote:


I think getting 3 bet on the river would be horrible, cuz I refuse to fold this hand to him.




If that is the case, I think you need to just call. Unless there is some rlevant read that you have not shared with the class.


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Jake (The Snake)
journeyman


Reged: 05/31/04
Posts: 93
Re: Nasty turn card changes the plan [Re: QTip]
      #3452174 - 09/20/05 11:46 AM

why no flop raise?

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