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Limit Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes Shorthanded

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)
Guido
old hand


Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
Loc: Netherlands
25 very simple questions
      #774161 - 06/23/04 08:20 AM

I'm trying to adapt to 6-max but up until now it's very hard for me. I do play aggressive but maybe a little to aggressive. Up until now I've only played 2K hands at 5/10 and I'm down 70BB. I know this isn't much and the swings can be huge but I a lot of questions. Asume a typical 5/10 with no reads. Please tell me what your action would be in every situation.

1 You have 88 at the button and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
2 You have 77 at the button and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
3 You have 88 in SB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
4 You have 77 in SB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
5 You have 88 in BB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
6 You have 77 in BB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises
7 You have 88 in SB and CO or button raises
8 You have 77 in SB and CO or button raises
9 You have 88 in BB and CO or button raises
10 You have 77 in BB and CO or button raises
11 In any of these questions would you play 66 different than 77?
12 You have KJo in CO and it's folded to you
13 You have QJo in CO and it's folded to you
14 You have JTo in CO and it's folded to you
15 You have T9s in CO and it's folded to you
16 You have 89s in CO and it's folded to you
17 You have J9s in CO and ít's folded to you
18 Would there be any difference when you are at the button in question 12-17?
19 You open raised QJo in LP, BB called. Flop is 257r, BB bets out.
20 When do you play 22-66?
21 UTG raises, a CC and you have 78o in BB
22 Button raises, you have K2s in BB
23 Button raises and you have K8s in BB
24 1 limper and you have 78o in SB
25 1 limper and you have 72s in SB

Sorry when these are very simple for you and I'm boring you with them. Thanks for your time,

Guido


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samdash
journeyman


Reged: 02/12/03
Posts: 80
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774185 - 06/23/04 08:52 AM

Assuming you know nothing about the players in any of the situations...

1. 3 bet
2. 3 bet
3. 3 bet
4. 3 bet
5. Call and lead out on most flops
6. Call and lead out on most flops
7. 3 bet
8. 3 bet
9. Sometimes I 3 bet, sometimes I call/lead out
10. same
11. you have to draw the line somewhere
12. raise it up
13. usually raise unless you've developed a "maniac" table image
14. fold
15. I sometimes raise this here, probably depends on image
If you play "big cards only" but occasionally a hand like this
it should work well for you.
16. Similar to T9s
17. sdflsdfisjdflisdjf
18. I open raise these all on the button. They're probably all good enough even against
a staunch blind defender.
19. try to keep track of how often he's making this play. If you've caught him doing it
with nothing, occasionally put in a raise here. Usually fold - most people do this
with small pairs hoping you'll give up right away, as checkraising will usually get
you further involved in the hand.
20. open raise any pair on the button obviously...depending on table image and how loose
the table is I'll sometimes raise as early as UTG with 55 and 66.
21. fold
22. fold
23. call and play fit or fold on the flop
24. fold
25. fold


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Peter_rus
addict


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 647
Loc: Moscow
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774325 - 06/23/04 10:23 AM

Without readings i usually:

1-10 3bet if NO limpers between us - if they exist-then call.

11 In any of these questions would you play 66 different than 77?
no

12-13 raise
14-17 fold

18 Would there be any difference when you are at the button in question 12-17?

Yes, J9s - raise

19 You open raised QJo in LP, BB called. Flop is 257r, BB bets out.

Depending on BB i
1. Fold
2. raise
3. call (and fold or raise on turn)

I mix such things.


20 When do you play 22-66?

66 Raise first from any pos. 55 - Raise UTG+1,CO,BUTTON. 44-Raise first on Button or SB. 33,22 - Raise against BB from SB only.

55,66 3bet on Button if CO raise or fold sometimes if some tight UTG raised too.

21 UTG raises, a CC and you have 78o in BB

depend on my current mood - call more often.

22 Button raises, you have K2s in BB

call.

23 Button raises and you have K8s in BB

call

24 1 limper and you have 78o in SB

fold

25 1 limper and you have 72s in SB

fold


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Guido
old hand


Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
Loc: Netherlands
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774415 - 06/23/04 11:07 AM

It seems that the two of you almost always 3-bet 77 and 88 against an unknown raiser. Peter_rus where do you draw the line? Do you 3-bet 55? Why don't you raise 9Ts but do raise J9s at the button first in?

Should 55 and 66 be raised from almost any position first in?

You guys seem to think different about K2 and K8s as hands to defend your blinds with. What does the rest think about this?

When there are 2 limpers and you hold 27s or 78o in the SB what do you do?

Thanks,

Guido


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tripdad
enthusiast


Reged: 01/08/04
Posts: 291
Loc: east central indiana
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774434 - 06/23/04 11:15 AM

1.3-bet
2.3-bet
3.call
4.call
5.call
6.call
7.3-bet
8.3-bet
9.3-bet
10.3-bet
11.no
12.raise
13.raise
14.raise
15.raise
16.fold
17.fold
18.no
19.raise
20.most always
21.fold
22.fold
23.fold
24.fold
25.fold


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jujujaja34
journeyman


Reged: 07/08/03
Posts: 62
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774526 - 06/23/04 11:55 AM

Guido,

All default if there is such a thing shorthanded:

#1-#10 - RAISE

#11 - 66 is a fold for me from an early raise, and a *depends* from CO (really depends on how often the BB will fold (if I'm in SB))

#12,#13 - RAISE

#14-#17 - Depends on how tight the button and blinds are

#18 - All are an open RAISE on the button

#19 - Raise or Fold, depends

#20 - Overlimp after 2 or more limpers, if the game is very passive you can consider open limping UTG, Calling LP raises depends

#21 - Fold

#22 - Depends

#23 - Call

#24,#25 - Fold

jujujaja34


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Packerfan1
member


Reged: 09/20/02
Posts: 157
Loc: WI
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #774692 - 06/23/04 01:05 PM

My answers with NO READS (notes).. this is rare btw.

1-4 I fold unless there are 2 callers.
5-6 I usually call, always if there is one other caller.
7-10 CO I'll fold or call. Button I'll 3bet.
11. No 88 and less are the same in my book.
12. Raise
13. Raise
14. Raise
15-17.. with no reads I'd fold.
18. Id raise will all of them on the button.
19. No read, I fold.
20. With 2 or more limpers.
21. call
22. call
23. call
24 call
25. fold at 5/10.

Pack


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Nate tha' Great
old hand


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 1120
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #775299 - 06/23/04 04:23 PM

This is what I'd usually do; I won't make any claims that it's correct.

1 You have 88 at the button and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

3-bet

2 You have 77 at the button and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

3-bet

3 You have 88 in SB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

3-bet or call

4 You have 77 in SB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

3-bet or call

5 You have 88 in BB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

call

6 You have 77 in BB and UTG or UTG + 1 raises

call

7 You have 88 in SB and CO or button raises

3-bet

8 You have 77 in SB and CO or button raises

3-bet

9 You have 88 in BB and CO or button raises

3-bet or call

10 You have 77 in BB and CO or button raises

3-bet or call

11 In any of these questions would you play 66 different than 77?

The only close decisions, IMHO, are #3 and #4. I might muck 66 against a tough UTG raiser.

12 You have KJo in CO and it's folded to you

Raise

13 You have QJo in CO and it's folded to you

Raise

14 You have JTo in CO and it's folded to you

Raise or fold, depending on table texture. Usually raise.

15 You have T9s in CO and it's folded to you

Raise or fold, depending on table texture. I like this hand better than JTo.

16 You have 89s in CO and it's folded to you

Raise or fold. Usually raise.

17 You have J9s in CO and ít's folded to you

Raise or fold. Usually raise.

18 Would there be any difference when you are at the button in question 12-17?

Not really.

19 You open raised QJo in LP, BB called. Flop is 257r, BB bets out.

Probably call. Sometimes raise.

20 When do you play 22-66?

When I feel like it.

21 UTG raises, a CC and you have 78o in BB

Depends on how tough the UTG player is. I probably call with offsuit connectors more than I should.

22 Button raises, you have K2s in BB

Fold 50%, Call 30%, 3-bet 20%

23 Button raises and you have K8s in BB

Call or 3-bet

24 1 limper and you have 78o in SB

Call

25 1 limper and you have 72s in SB

Fold


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university
stranger


Reged: 05/11/04
Posts: 16
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #775395 - 06/23/04 04:46 PM

And the concept behind 3 betting when UTG or UTG+1 raises and you're sitting on the button with 8's is????

I thought some folks advised that you call preflop raises with strong hands. I'm not sure I'd consider 88 a strong hand.

And the flop then brings a 9 or a 10 or jack or queen or king or ace, and the UTG raiser bets out again and then what?

Color me noobish.


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samdash
journeyman


Reged: 02/12/03
Posts: 80
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Nate tha' Great]
      #775407 - 06/23/04 04:50 PM

1 limper and you have 78o in SB, call

Really?


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Nate tha' Great
old hand


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 1120
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: samdash]
      #775436 - 06/23/04 04:58 PM

Quote:

1 limper and you have 78o in SB, call

Really?




Sure, unless the BB is very aggressive. It's an okay hand and I can play well postflop.


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: samdash]
      #775442 - 06/23/04 05:00 PM

Quote:

1 limper and you have 78o in SB, call

Really?




Easy call. Especially against people that overplay their hands and go too far with them.


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stripsqueez
old hand


Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #775932 - 06/23/04 07:50 PM

i dont want to answer 25 questions - i think guido already knows the answer to 23 of them anyway

i do want to comment on a couple of answers - completing the SB (assuming its a 1:2 blind structure) with 87o after 1 limper is too loose - if the other guys are horrible then i could probably complete with 72o and it wouldnt be too bad, but as a default plan i dont like it

3 betting an UTG raise from the SB with 88 or 77 seems a pushy business to me - someone show me 100+ hands from pokertracker where this plan has been adopted with say 66-88 and its + and i will recant

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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Vehn
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 2752
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #775957 - 06/23/04 07:59 PM

I agree 100%

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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #775961 - 06/23/04 08:00 PM

Quote:

i do want to comment on a couple of answers - completing the SB (assuming its a 1:2 blind structure) with 87o after 1 limper is too loose - if the other guys are horrible then i could probably complete with 72o and it wouldnt be too bad, but as a default plan i dont like it



Tightie?

Quote:

3 betting an UTG raise from the SB with 88 or 77 seems a pushy business to me - someone show me 100+ hands from pokertracker where this plan has been adopted with say 66-88 and its + and i will recant




I tend to agree with this statement, though I'm curious if there is any 'easy' way to have Pokertracker help me research this further? Or is the only way to do such a thing by going to the position tab, clicking on SB, then looking through the HH of each occurence and calculatinig by hand the times you have 88, etc, against an UTG raise?

I ask because glancing, I see I have raised 88 66% of the time from my SB. I'm curious if there's a more exact way to examine when I'm raising versus completing versus folding.


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samdash
journeyman


Reged: 02/12/03
Posts: 80
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #775962 - 06/23/04 08:01 PM

Mixed responses on the 78o in SB scenario - I don't think this matters either way - if you play better than your opponents go ahead and get in there if you want to. Looks like it can show a small amount of profit according to some people's PT results. Now about 3 betting the small pairs out of the small blind... this might not be the best idea against the tighter opponents. But Against some of the more aggressive players that will raise any 2 big cards I think its important to take control and try to force them into a mistake on the flop (folding when they miss but still have 6 outs). EX They raise with KQ and you take it away on an A high flop. If you just call and then bet out it looks a little fishy, plus you're probably better off eliminating the big blind from the hand. I could even see pushing an opponent off of a pocket pair a couple ranks higher (3 bet with 77 against what is actually 99 then lead out on A K X flop - pretty rare this will happen but perhaps a small added benefit of the play). Do you think these reasons make it correct against the right players?

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Ulysses
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Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 5519
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Schneids]
      #775964 - 06/23/04 08:02 PM

Quote:

Easy call. Especially against people that overplay their hands and go too far with them.




The reason 3BB+/100 is possible in these games is because everyone completes w/ 87o in this spot. Well, everyone except the guys making 3BB+/100.


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Nate tha' Great
old hand


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 1120
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Ulysses]
      #775978 - 06/23/04 08:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Easy call. Especially against people that overplay their hands and go too far with them.




The reason 3BB+/100 is possible in these games is because everyone completes w/ 87o in this spot. Well, everyone except the guys making 3BB+/100.




Maybe the "typical" loose opponent completes with 87o here, but he also does a lot of other things that are a lot more responsible for his contribution to El Diablo's win rate.


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Ulysses]
      #775985 - 06/23/04 08:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Easy call. Especially against people that overplay their hands and go too far with them.




The reason 3BB+/100 is possible in these games is because everyone completes w/ 87o in this spot. Well, everyone except the guys making 3BB+/100.




I look in my SB spot and see every mid range offsuit connector and one gapper down as far as 65o as losing less than .25BB/hand, and a couple as winners, thus meaning completing is typically going to be profitable for me (since right off the bat PT is counting my dead SB in as part of the loss with the hand, meaning "breaking even" with the hand is -.25BB/hand), as opposed to simply folding and not playing.


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Ulysses
Carpal \'Tunnel


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Posts: 5519
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Schneids]
      #776045 - 06/23/04 08:29 PM

El Diablo could make a qualified statement about what conditions etc. blah blah blah, but that would not sound nearly as cool as his original bold statement.

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Ulysses
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Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 5519
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Schneids]
      #776054 - 06/23/04 08:31 PM

BTW, what are your results when you run that same query with the following conditions: 5 or 6 people at the table, 1 limper to you in SB (Note that the original question was 78o in SB w/ one limper).

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Clarkmeister
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Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Ulysses]
      #776073 - 06/23/04 08:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Easy call. Especially against people that overplay their hands and go too far with them.




The reason 3BB+/100 is possible in these games is because everyone completes w/ 87o in this spot. Well, everyone except the guys making 3BB+/100.




El Diablo is too tight. Unless the BB is very aggressive, I am calling there every time.


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
To expand a little more [Re: Schneids]
      #776083 - 06/23/04 08:38 PM

65o: 181 times, 51.38VPIP, -.16BB/hand
75o: 183 times, 0.55VPIP, -.25BB/hand
76o: 181 times, 53.04VPIP, -.21BB/hand
86o: 161 times, 36.02VPIP, -.24BB/hand
87o: 173 times, 52.6VPIP, -.28BB/hand
96o: 179 times, 25.14VPIP, -.23BB/hand
97o: 193 times, 43.52VPIP, +.09BBB/hand
98o: 168 times, 57.14VPIP, -.18BB/hand
T6o: 164 times, 18.29VPIP, -.11BB/hand
T7o: 150 times, 37.33VPIP, -.27BB/hand
T8o: 201 times, 50.25VPIP, -.19BB/hand
T9o: 180 times, 63.33VPIP, +.11BB/hand


Alright, so in that group of hands, there are only two where to this point in time it'd have been better to fold every single time rather than play with them.

Considering this whole group of hands shows a trend of doing better than -.25BB/hand, I think for me and for my game anyway, it is better for me to selectively complete and play these hands. These numbers show my bottom line has improved when in comparison to folding and remaining at 0 EV with them, therefore I stand behind my statements that these types of hands are 'typically' playable for a complete in the SB, specifically in the 10/20 6-max anyway.


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Ulysses]
      #776090 - 06/23/04 08:40 PM

Quote:

BTW, what are your results when you run that same query with the following conditions: 5 or 6 people at the table, 1 limper to you in SB (Note that the original question was 78o in SB w/ one limper).




That is a lot of work for the Schneids and he needs to focus on getting mega-hours in the next few days. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, since I think completing with one limper is ok in general.


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Guido
old hand


Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
Loc: Netherlands
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #776097 - 06/23/04 08:46 PM

Quote:

i dont want to answer 25 questions - i think guido already knows the answer to 23 of them anyway



Well I don't think I'm a bad player in a full ring game but I want to get a feeling about the differences between 6-max and a full ring game. In a full ring game I almost always raise 99 and sometimes 88. But how far down should you go with this in a 6-max game. I know pairs go up in value same with two paint cards. And again how far do you go. I'm not a very good player when it's shorthanded in a full ring game. Probably because I'm too tight when it gets down to 1 or 2 opponents. That's why I asked these questions. I can guess but I might be completely wrong. And as I can see from the answers there is almost no hand where everybody does the same so it isn't very clear.

Guido


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stripsqueez
old hand


Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #776135 - 06/23/04 09:01 PM

Quote:

I'm not a very good player when it's shorthanded in a full ring game. Probably because I'm too tight when it gets down to 1 or 2 opponents




your not too tight - you arent aggressive enough - different things

Quote:

That's why I asked these questions. I can guess but I might be completely wrong. And as I can see from the answers there is almost no hand where everybody does the same so it isn't very clear




piss poor rationale for asking the questions - you plainly know where the line is drawn thats why the answers are causing debate

i mean no serious criticism - i just dont think you have much to worry about, except perhaps your sense of uncertainty

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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Ulysses
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 5519
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Clarkmeister]
      #776225 - 06/23/04 09:56 PM

Quote:

El Diablo is too tight. Unless the BB is very aggressive, I am calling there every time.




Well, El Diablo typically does play in games where the BB is very likely to raise if he just completes, so that's definitely a consideration. In fact, El Diablo in some games will go for the limp re-raise from this exact spot and is usually successful. But, as he said in his followup, it's really neither an auto-call or auto-fold for him, he just liked the way his initial post sounded.


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Guido
old hand


Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
Loc: Netherlands
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #776806 - 06/24/04 04:52 AM

Quote:

your not too tight - you arent aggressive enough - different things



You are probably right but I don't want to take it too far preflop, that's why asked these questions. Also the fact that I'm still losing doesn't help. Maybe I play good but am unlucky, maybe I play reasonable and am unlucky, maybe I play bad and am lucky. I don't know yet. It's true that I am uncertain about my shorthanded game but that's because of the past. It's just a fact that I'm not very good shorthanded. It's probably also a fact that I have become better but I'm no where near you guys and that's why I ask questions. Those two hands I posted yesterday are two examples, I think, one where I wasn't aggressive enough and one where I went to far. But again I'm not sure that's why I posted them. Maybe they are so easy for you guys that they aren't interesting...

Guido


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Schneids
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Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #776817 - 06/24/04 05:08 AM

Don't sweat any of this.

I know the present me is a better player than the me 6 months ago that saw over 30% of flops and was rather passive postflop.

I know the present me sees things the me of 6 months ago sucked at.

I know the present me sees things from the me of 1 month ago that were still leaks.

And I'm pretty damn sure the me of 1 month from now will think the present me was a leaky player.

With the exception of maybe 3 or 4 people that come to my mind who frequent this particular forum, I am pretty sure we're all learning and picking up things constantly. So even if one hand you post might be "easy" for a few of the posters here, it's still great you're posting them and about 99% of the rest of us are all learning from your posts as well.


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Guido
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Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
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Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Schneids]
      #776954 - 06/24/04 07:41 AM

At the moment it's just hard. When I played at full ring games I had a 150BB downswing. Now I'm playing 6-max and I can add an other 90BB to that. I posted those hands because I'm not sure but nobody responds to them. Stripsqueez said I'm not aggressive enough. I think it's just misplaced aggression. To figure this out I need feedback.

I have a hard time playing overcards.

Two examples:

EP raises, I 3-bet AK, rest folds. Flop 268r and EP check-raises me. Most of the time I fold or call and fold on the turn.

1 limper, I raise AQo and the rest folds. Flop 36Kr, I bet and the limper check-raises me. I fold.

Same kind of situations with a pair. A raise, I 3-bet TT and the flop comes QJ3r and I get check-raised.

Or I open raise 77, get 3-bet by the SB and the BB comes along. Flop comes KQ4r, SB bets, BB calls, I fold.

Sometimes I re-raise when I have TT on a J62r board for example but it seems that virually every hand I enter I lose. And it feels like every time I fold I would have ended up a winner.

I don't mind it when I lose as long as I know I'm playing well. At 6-max I don't know whether I'm playing well or not, at a full ring game I do.

I have an other question:
How do you play ATo after 2 limpers and you are in the blinds? Raise?

Thanks,

Guido


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naphand
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Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Bournemouth, UK
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #779590 - 06/25/04 05:14 AM

If you don't know what you are doing, what the hell are you doing playing $5/$10?

Party is not the only site to offer SH, but it is the only on that offers nothing between $1/$2 and $5/$10. The players may be the most stupid, but that does not make it the best place to play, esp. if you want to learn.

UB has better post-flop players, even at the lower limits. Stars has more aggro players, even at the lower limits.

If you are folding AKo to a CR, drop limits and play a level where you don't worry about 3-betting, calling down or CR him back on the Turn. Play at a level where you can try different plans/styles without threatening your bankroll. At the moment you seem to be losing too much in too many uncertain positions.

Also, spend more time reading the posts from the last 6 months on the forum. It does not take long to pick up a good playing style for these kinds of hands, it is then just a question of having the balls/nouse/sense to apply that to the game. When you are learning, you need to be reading theory, reading the forum, posting some, and playing some. Rinse and repeat.

When posting hands, I recommend you review your play each day and maybe post one or two hands that you felt you played particularly badly or were very uncertain about. More interesting hands get a better response, esp. if you bother to explain your rationale to the rest of the forum. Just how do you expect to get a coherent response from 25 questions? You will get 25 different answers!

Take responsibilty for your own learning by doing your own research here, in books and at the tables, and concentrating on a particular aspect of your game. If your pre-flop choices are giving you problems, then you don't even need to post here, this has been discussed over and over and over and over on this forum. Look through PokerTracker and see which position is giving you the biggest leak, or some similar aspect of your game. Then go to work.

The forum is not a magic bullet, it's just a vehicle to develop your own thinking. There is no simple/single answer to any question (aparet from the extremes).


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Guido
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Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
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Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: naphand]
      #779617 - 06/25/04 05:57 AM

Thanks for your advice Naphand. I wouldn't call myself a complete beginner. I'm just new to 6-max and need to adjust my hand selection. I've read some posts about this but some are specific situations. I'm confident about my postflop play, I've some leaks just like everybody else but not major ones I think. I've lot's of experience at full ring tables just not at 6-max.

Quote:

At the moment you seem to be losing too much in too many uncertain positions.




I learn quickly and that's why I posted a lot of hands. I'm sorry when those hands are boring to you. Please ignore them. I have some leaks but those are easy to plug I think. I just need to adjust to 6-max. I don't think all the hands I've posted are that easy though...

Quote:

Also, spend more time reading the posts from the last 6 months on the forum.



I've read a lot of posts...

Quote:

When you are learning, you need to be reading theory, reading the forum, posting some, and playing some. Rinse and repeat.




I don't do anything else...

Quote:

I recommend you review your play each day and maybe post one or two hands that you felt you played particularly badly or were very uncertain about.



I always request the HH when I'm playing and I didn't like the way I played it. When I end my session I go through those hands and sometimes post them when I have no idea what would be the best way to play them.

Quote:

Just how do you expect to get a coherent response from 25 questions? You will get 25 different answers!




I didn't expact the same answers. I just wanted to get an idea about how aggressive you need to play preflop. That's all...

Quote:

Take responsibilty for your own learning by doing your own research here, in books and at the tables, and concentrating on a particular aspect of your game.



Again, I don't do anything else...

Quote:

If your pre-flop choices are giving you problems, then you don't even need to post here, this has been discussed over and over and over and over on this forum.



I don't think this is completely true. I realize that I've asked some basic questions and I'm sorry about that. I don't think all preflop decisions are easy and I certainly don't think everything has been discussed here and I also don't think it's wrong to post them again when most of us can learn something from it.

Quote:

The forum is not a magic bullet, it's just a vehicle to develop your own thinking. There is no simple/single answer to any question



I know that. This isn't the first time I'm at 2+2...

Thanks,

Guido


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naphand
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Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #779635 - 06/25/04 06:33 AM

Quote:

I don't do anything else...




Get out more.


Quote:

I don't think all preflop decisions are easy and I certainly don't think everything has been discussed here and I also don't think it's wrong to post them again when most of us can learn something from it.





PF is the easiest and most formualic part of poker. Our choices are almost always very simple. Some situations occur that are a bit trickier, but the answers are almost always very simple.

This forum will never answer all the questions, or cover every angle. But is it really about questions? I repeat; there is enough on this forum for your to develop an entirely coherent, solid PF strategy. It is about strategy, not hands. It will never be a "completed" manual of answers. The same PF question is different according to:

(i) Table conditions
(ii) Your table image
(iii) What you did previously
(iv) What you want to achieve in this hand PF
(v) What image you want to create
(vi) Your position
(vii) The position of your opponents relative to you
(viii) What your opponents have been doing
(ix) How you feel today
(x) What is going on at the other table/s
(xi) The presence of a maniac
(xii) The number of fishy players

Given all this you then have to decide what you actions are likely to achieve, and adjust according to what happens. Just as hands do not take place "in a vacuum cleaner", your PF decisions have to be taken in context as well. What makes PF decision so much easier is, we don't have a previous round of betting to consider.

It is like the argument: if you call a raise with ATs, why not A9s? and if A9s why not A8s etc. (as has happened recently, again).

IF IT IS STILL A CONCERN then tighten up your hand selection. This will cost you a some EV but reduce your variance hugely, and make a lot of post-flop decisions easier. The normal advice to "keep playing good poker" applies only where you actually believe you are playing good poker.


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Peter_rus
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Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 647
Loc: Moscow
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #779649 - 06/25/04 06:49 AM

Quote:

3 betting an UTG raise from the SB with 88 or 77 seems a pushy business to me




It's good busyness i think. Just 2 things:

1. You scared UTG-raiser.
2. You very possibly take push out blinds and the rest of table - thus gives you 0.7BB to pot immediately.
3. You very probably (around 55-70% depending on raiser) ahead of raiser PF.

One thing to consider: I reraise UTG raise depending of his PFR if it 18 and higher - i would reraise even 55 if 15+ - i would reraise 66+, if 13 - 77, 11 - 88 etc.

The only thing to worry about while 3-bet is that early raiser has big pair. If so - he will cap. If not - you are ahead. He can fold TT to AJ4-flop very easy, if he has Ace you easily spot this by his calling/raising on flop. If flop is a rag - he is forced to draw his overcards thus give you much more money.

Medium (5-9) pairs is very strong cards in 6max.

I don't know if my stats are good in general or no but i like it and use the way to 3-bet them in 5/10:

hand times win_pct bb_hand flop_pct pfr wtsd wsd
99 149,00 56,38 0,68 99,33 97,99 53,52 47,37
88 134,00 56,72 0,48 97,01 94,03 52,07 49,21
77 145,00 54,48 0,77 95,17 84,83 52,21 57,75
66 165,00 48,48 0,34 92,12 76,97 42,07 45,90
55 157,00 45,22 0,75 79,62 55,41 45,86 60,66


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Guido
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Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 942
Loc: Netherlands
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: naphand]
      #779656 - 06/25/04 06:59 AM

Quote:

Get out more.




I come from the netherlands and it always rains here .

Quote:

PF is the easiest and most formualic part of poker. Our choices are almost always very simple. Some situations occur that are a bit trickier, but the answers are almost always very simple.




True and I know that.

I know that poker isn't that simple and that your actions depend on a lot of things. I only wanted to get a better feeling about how aggressive I need to be preflop. It's not like I'm asking whether I should raise AK preflop.

Again sorry for asking these questions. Please ignore them. It also had to do with the fact that I had a downswing while I didn't think I was playing bad. I thought I was maybe too aggressive or went to far. As it turned out I didn't make many major mistakes and I had some bad luck. But because it's all new to me, I felt uncertain.

I don't think I have to tighten up, I think it's the opposit because I normally play at full ring games.

Thanks,

Guido


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stripsqueez
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Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Peter_rus]
      #779666 - 06/25/04 07:16 AM

Quote:

It's good busyness i think




just how crappy is your english ?

we arent disagreeing peter - i 3 bet 88 in this spot some of the time - i defer to naphands post

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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Peter_rus
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Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 647
Loc: Moscow
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: stripsqueez]
      #779670 - 06/25/04 07:20 AM

Quote:

just how crappy is your english ?




Sorry my English is crappy - skipped lessons in university here in Russia.

So i sometime misread something...

Edited by Peter_rus (06/25/04 07:23 AM)


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naphand
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Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Bournemouth, UK
Re: 25 very simple questions [Re: Guido]
      #779678 - 06/25/04 07:39 AM

You don't need to apologise, the fact that you got so many responses demonstrates a willingness of others to help. But reading through a thread like this is something I try to avoid. I guess some people think the same of my posts......

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stripsqueez
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Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
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Re: To expand a little more [Re: Schneids]
      #779681 - 06/25/04 07:47 AM

Quote:

I stand behind my statements that these types of hands are 'typically' playable for a complete in the SB, specifically in the 10/20 6-max anyway




i rushed home yesterday anxious to pull out pokertracker and demonstrate you have no clue

ummm - you win

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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Schneids
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Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: To expand a little more [Re: stripsqueez]
      #779695 - 06/25/04 08:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I stand behind my statements that these types of hands are 'typically' playable for a complete in the SB, specifically in the 10/20 6-max anyway




i rushed home yesterday anxious to pull out pokertracker and demonstrate you have no clue

ummm - you win






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purnell
member


Reged: 07/18/04
Posts: 154
bump [Re: Guido]
      #925190 - 08/15/04 02:49 PM

n/m

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