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General Poker Discussion >> Poker Theory

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)
karlson
enthusiast


Reged: 09/18/02
Posts: 233
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: Phat Mack]
      #383992 - 10/25/03 09:54 AM

The T8s will be called by quite a few hands that are not favorites. These are small pocket pairs (through 55, 66 is slight favorite) and the other T8 hands. I have it being called by 733 hands and still at about 42% when it is called.

A8 will be called by 141 hands, including two that are underdogs (the ones with the 8 of the suit of our A). That may account for the slight discrepancy.


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ZeeJustin
veteran


Reged: 07/21/03
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern VA (near DC)
Re: Hands Sorted [Re: tewall]
      #384377 - 10/25/03 07:23 PM

Late in a tournament, there's an all-in raise, and you are either in the big blind, or know for some reason that if you call, no one else will. Is it safe to say that this is the order of hands that you should play? I.e you should be more likely to call the raise with AQs than TT?

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muck_nutz
journeyman


Reged: 06/08/03
Posts: 96
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: karlson]
      #384426 - 10/25/03 08:46 PM

I'm not sure I follow why you think T8s will be called by 55 in the open hand situation. The 33 > AK, AK > JTs, JTs > 33 non transitive example is well known enough that at least some people are going to realize that you fold 77 [ignoring dead money] to a "revealed" raise by JTs (but you call with 88).

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karlson
enthusiast


Reged: 09/18/02
Posts: 233
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: muck_nutz]
      #384447 - 10/25/03 09:31 PM

Quote:

[ignoring dead money]




Why would you do that?


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tewall
veteran


Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 1206
Loc: midwest
Re: Hands Sorted [Re: ZeeJustin]
      #384454 - 10/25/03 09:48 PM

I don't think that's necessarily so. The first list is a list of hands that make a profit raising the BB even if the BB knows the hand that's raising it by order of how large the stack can be before the bet is no longer profitable. This list is acting against an unknown, and therefore, random hand. What BB can call with could well be different because what SB would raise with is not random.

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muck_nutz
journeyman


Reged: 06/08/03
Posts: 96
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: karlson]
      #384456 - 10/25/03 09:52 PM

It wasn't important to my comment. You wouldn't ignore the dead money in real life. So, back to my question. Why do you think if you jammed with T8s I would think my 55 was a favorite? Or are you assuming that dogs which are getting the right price are going to call? I thought you were making a subjective assumption that some people would call with hands which were not getting the right price. Is that incorrect?

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karlson
enthusiast


Reged: 09/18/02
Posts: 233
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: muck_nutz]
      #384464 - 10/25/03 10:17 PM

The BB is an expert. He will only call with hands that are getting the right price. 55 is a call against T8s even thought it is a slight underdog because of the blinds already in the pot. We are not making any subjective assumptions.

Hope that clears up any confusion.


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muck_nutz
journeyman


Reged: 06/08/03
Posts: 96
Re: checks: A8o, T8s, QTo. [Re: karlson]
      #384473 - 10/25/03 10:40 PM

Yea, that is as I hope it was.

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Phat Mack
old hand


Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 791
Loc: People's Republic of Texas
Re: question [Re: karlson]
      #384979 - 10/26/03 06:03 PM

Do your numbers represent the total amount bet, or the amount in addition to the $1 called?

It might be most useful to express the numbers as a ratio to the dead money in the pot, as opposed to the bet in a specific $1, $2 NL game.


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karlson
enthusiast


Reged: 09/18/02
Posts: 233
Re: question [Re: Phat Mack]
      #384995 - 10/26/03 06:41 PM

The $1 in the SB is not included.

Divide by 2 if you want the ratio of the bet to the dead money.


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