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Limit Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes Shorthanded

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jfresh
newbie


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 34
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: balkii]
      #1320599 - 11/30/04 04:31 AM

yea now that i think of it, i fold AJo UTG at a full table, but i do raise it 6max.

ATo is fold utg, raise UTG+1?


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jfresh
newbie


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 34
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: jfresh]
      #1320668 - 11/30/04 05:07 AM

looking at my VPIP at different positions, which places should i loosen up? in the blinds? UTG, UTG+1?

and can some people please post their VPIP at different positions for comparison? thanks


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stripsqueez
old hand


Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: jfresh]
      #1320669 - 11/30/04 05:07 AM

i wouldnt loose a lot of sleep about playing too tight

i think folding A10o UTG is fine - UTG+1 even after UTG limps i might raise

like everyone else i think you should look to steal a bit more - i dont think what you steal with should be the same every game - i also think you should look to play some more hands in the blinds but i reckon your BB/hand numbers are good

schneids posted a description of what he completes with in the SB playing 10/20 some time ago - in short he was making money by completing with garbage like 76o in multi way pots - i dont reccomend you do that but it demonstrates what can be done when you feel on top of the game and know what your doing post flop

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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stripsqueez
old hand


Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: jfresh]
      #1320675 - 11/30/04 05:10 AM

Quote:

looking at my VPIP at different positions, which places should i loosen up? in the blinds? UTG, UTG+1?

and can some people please post their VPIP at different positions for comparison? thanks




i happened to look at this yesterday - i recall the cutoff was 19% and the button 24% - the others around 12%

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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helpmeout
old hand


Reged: 08/04/04
Posts: 991
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: jfresh]
      #1320708 - 11/30/04 05:31 AM

Button 22.42
1 19.28
2 16.95
3 15.32
BB 25.73
SB 36.24


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Rizen
stranger


Reged: 03/25/04
Posts: 1
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: Your Mom]
      #1322206 - 11/30/04 03:55 PM

Quote:

I routinely fold Q9o on the button even when no one has played. Q9s on the button is an easy open raise.




Why would you open raise with Q9s but not with Q9o into an unentered pot from the button? Against two random hands I cannot believe that there is that much of a difference between your Q9 being suited and unsuited. I could certainly see changing this play based on how the blinds play, but not based on suit.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, but I would really like to hear what makes Q9s an "easy raise" over Q9o in this situation.

-Rizen


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Your Mom
addict


Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 624
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: Rizen]
      #1323526 - 11/30/04 11:57 PM

being suited is better than not being suited.

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Rizen
stranger


Reged: 03/25/04
Posts: 1
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: Your Mom]
      #1325224 - 12/01/04 11:34 AM

Quote:

being suited is better than not being suited.




Perhaps I didn't phrase my question right. I don't think the percentages are really THAT much different against 2 random hands that a Q9s is a raise while a Q9o is a fold from the button in an unentered pot. I haven't run the #s anywhere, but I can't imagine your chances of winning a showdown with Q9s over Q9o are more than a percentage point or two higher. I know poker is a game of often pushing the smallest edges for profit, but I still believe that Q9o is profitable enough against two random hands to make it a button value raise as well.

When only playing against 1 or 2 opponents, I just really don't think that suitedness is all that important. I think it adds *some* value, but certainly not the amount of value being placed on it in this situation. Anyone know of a place where I could actually run the #s against 2 random hands to find out?

-Rizen


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Peter_rus
addict


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 647
Loc: Moscow
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: Rizen]
      #1325573 - 12/01/04 12:46 PM

The poster about Q9o(or s) was me. But i disagree with this statement:

Quote:

Against two random hands I cannot believe that there is that much of a difference between your Q9 being suited and unsuited.




When analizing importance of suited cards vs high card power when you raise for value and it's likely will be HU on the flop, - you can use a simple thing Q7s=Q9o, A2s=A4o, JTo=J8s. Just decrease lowest card by too and you will find proper nearly equal suited hand.

As well you can use the same thing between high cards. Though, here you must decrease kicker by 4. For eg: A2o=K6o=QTo=Q8s=K4s. some anomalies when calculating of course exist and they are because of increased straight abilities it's like A2s=K7s=Q9s=JTs.

Also for me Q7s and Q9o are borderline. Q6s i muck as well as Q8o.

Edited by Peter_rus (12/01/04 12:56 PM)


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Peter_rus
addict


Reged: 05/18/04
Posts: 647
Loc: Moscow
Re: vpip of 17 [Re: balkii]
      #1325598 - 12/01/04 12:51 PM

Quote:

good god! folding AJo UTG in a 6-game?! dude thats an UTG raise in a 10 man game...




I raise UTG AJo in full game 100% of time... and it's going good. I raise ATo in UTG+2 in full game and ... it runs better then AJo


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