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Limit Texas Hold'em >> Small Stakes Shorthanded

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davidross
old hand


Reged: 09/03/02
Posts: 1021
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop
      #518462 - 02/09/04 08:43 AM

We have established that I don't raise pre-flop as much as a lot of you, and I'm curious to see where our play is different. Here are a few grey area hands (at least as far as I'm concerned). I'm curious what others do pre-flop.

I'm referring to shorthanded games so UTG is still only 3 off the button. Tell me whether you raise, call or fold.

UTG A8 suited
UTG QJo
UTG 66

Button after 2 limpers
ATs
A3s
A9o
A4o
QJs
KTo
77

SB to a button raise

KJo
A7o
33


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Yesterday
stranger


Reged: 01/15/04
Posts: 23
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518484 - 02/09/04 09:13 AM

UTG A8 - fold
UTG Qjs - raise
UTG 66 - fold

button after 2 limps
ATs - raise
A3s - fold
A9o - call
A4o - fold
Qjs - call
Kto - call
77 - fold

SB to a raise
Kjo - call
A7o - fold
33 - borderline fold/re-raise, but no calling

UTG - If I am going to play UTG, which isn't that much, then I will for surely raise and see what is happening in the hand and who has what.

I like to raise maybe a bit more than you. I really believe in seeing what is going on in the hand a little more by throwing a raise and seeing how everyone reacts after the flop, especially short-handed.

Maybe folding 77 after 2 limpers is a bad play, but if I was to play it, there would be no calling, it would be a raise, you got the position, so you might as well control the hand with a raise preflop.

I really have lost any confidence in Axo, especially short because it never holds up for me, unless I hit an ace. So I try to raise and win without a showdown, or I will most likely lose the hand. Ax just seems so useless and unplayable to me, especially full ring.

With limpers I will call quite a bit unless I have a monster or big suited connectors.


Edited by Yesterday (02/09/04 09:25 AM)


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stoxtrader
enthusiast


Reged: 09/26/03
Posts: 219
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518488 - 02/09/04 09:19 AM

I really work hard to respect my position, so here goes:

UTG:
A8s - fold
QJo - fold
66 - fold, 77 - raise

Button 2 limpers:
ATs - raise
A3s - fold
A9o - fold
A4o - fold
QJs - raise
KTo - fold
77 - raise

SB to a button raise - depends on if it's a steal raise (no limpers)
KJo - non-steal - fold
steal - 3 bet

A7o - fold
33 - fold

I have about 7k hands in my database at 1/2 6 max and am making 3.78 bb/100 - I think I'm getting very lucky though - I VP$IP - 26.57%, from SB - 59% (I'm working on reducing this, although I'm only losing .02BB/hand from SB), I go to showdown 30.26% and win at showdown 49.68%. These stats seem to me that I should be doing more poorly, maybe I'm winning more than my fair share of the larger pots.

stox


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Packerfan1
member


Reged: 09/20/02
Posts: 157
Loc: WI
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518539 - 02/09/04 10:07 AM

David, trying to help both of our games here by responding and reading the other's responses. Like you, I raise a little less preflop (about 9-10%) than others.

UTG:
A8s 80%fold, 20%limp if very loose passive game

QJo Almost always fold

66 90% fold, 10% limp if very loose passive (and running well )

Button after two limpers:

ATs: 50/50 between limping and raising. Depends on opponents.

A3s: Almost always call after 2 limpers.

A9o: Almost always fold after 2 limpers.

A4o: Fold.

QJs: Almost always just call

KTo: Almost always fold after 2 limpers, player specific.

77: Call

SB to a button raise:

KJ: 3bet
A7: 3bet
33: Fold or 3bet, player specific.

My blind plays are designed to encourage the button to leave my blinds alone, not necessarly for the particular hand itself.

I'm eager to read other responses. Now stay off my tables ok?

Pack


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daryn
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2759
Loc: Boston, MA
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518583 - 02/09/04 10:35 AM

UTG A8 suited FOLD
UTG QJo FOLD
UTG 66 RAISE

Button after 2 limpers
ATs RAISE
A3s RAISE
A9o FOLD
A4o FOLD
QJs RAISE


if i play, especially when i have position, i am coming in for a raise to take control of the hand, and if i miss and they "check to the raiser" i have the free card option. i don't know how anyone playing in these games call limp on the button with QJs after two limpers.. that's just wrong.
KTo FOLD
77 RAISE

SB to a button raise

KJo FOLD
A7o FOLD
33 RE-RAISE


Edited by daryn (02/09/04 10:37 AM)


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sweetjazz
journeyman


Reged: 08/03/03
Posts: 95
Loc: Rhode Island
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518591 - 02/09/04 10:38 AM

I am a beginning player, and all my experience comes from playing a (usually) 5-handed home game that is loose aggressive.

UTG A8 suited -- I fold.
UTG QJo -- I fold.
UTG 66 -- I fold.

They're all close, and I might open raise with any of them UTG 5-handed depending on the conditions. And I might even limp with QJo in a loose game where people play all aces and most kings to a raise anyway, trying to induce undercards to call.

Button after 2 limpers
ATs -- I raise.
A3s -- I fold.
A9o -- I raise some of the time, depending on the starting hands opponents are playing.
A4o -- I fold.
QJs -- I raise.
KTo -- I fold most of the time, but I might consider calling against loose opponents.
77 -- I fold. Unless opponents either play much too passively against a raise, or are so loose that they often limp in with a low card (or low cardS -- unpaired!) in their hand.

SB to a button raise
KJo -- most likely to 3-bet
A7o -- more likely to fold
33 -- more likely to fold

If it is a steal raise, I'd 3-bet most of these hands against a loose player, and fold against someone I perceived as tight. I generally try to play my blinds tight against steals, but be willing to go to the river with almost any flop when I do play (assuming opponent will generally auto-bet the entire hand).


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gonores
old hand


Reged: 01/20/03
Posts: 821
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518755 - 02/09/04 11:59 AM

UTG A8 suited
UTG QJo
UTG 66

All of these are very specific to my short-term image and my read on my opponents, especially the blinds. If I've been raising a lot, I muck all these, if I've been quiet, I raise all these. One thing I'm not doing UTG is limping. period.

Button after 2 limpers
ATs - raise
A3s - call w/ no fear of blind raise
A9o - raise
A4o - fold
QJs - raise/call (image specific)
KTo - raise/fold (opponent & image specific)
77 - call

SB to a button raise

KJo - reraise
A7o - reraise
33 - reraise or fold, depending on BB calling standards and Button steal-raise standards and call-stationness



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sxb
stranger


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 7
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #518964 - 02/09/04 01:27 PM

UTG A8 suited, raise
UTG QJo, call
UTG 66, raise

Button after 2 limpers
ATs, raise
A3s, call
A9o, raise
A4o, call
QJs, raise
KTo, raise
77, raise

SB to a button raise

KJo, reraise
A7o, reraise
33, reraise


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Philuva
enthusiast


Reged: 10/15/02
Posts: 335
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Yesterday]
      #519019 - 02/09/04 01:46 PM

Folding 77 on the button after 2 limpers is an awful play.

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Ulysses
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 5519
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519027 - 02/09/04 01:50 PM

UTG A8 suited - depends
UTG QJo - fold
UTG 66 - depends

Button after 2 limpers

ATs - raise
A3s - call
A9o - usually fold
A4o - absolutely fold
QJs - sometimes call, sometimes raise
KTo - sometimes fold, sometimes call
77 - call

SB to a button raise

This all depends on the button. I could 3-bet or fold w/ any of those hands. Against some buttons, I'll call and then checkraise a fair amount. Just depends.


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Requeim
newbie


Reged: 08/26/03
Posts: 43
Loc: Boston
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519058 - 02/09/04 02:05 PM

UTG A8 suited - depends on how tight the game is, im raising if the game is tight.
UTG QJo - fold
UTG 66 - fold most of the time, I'm raising with 7's or better.

Button after 2 limpers

ATs - raise
A3s - call
A9o - always fold
A4o - always fold
QJs - always raise
KTo - 50/50 fold or call
77 - call


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naphand
addict


Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Bournemouth, UK
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Philuva]
      #519252 - 02/09/04 03:28 PM

Agreed, this is an easy raise.

You have the best possible position, you opponents are limping with hands like low suited, or weak Aces, or lower pairs than 77. By raising you should knock out the blinds (if BB calls you still have a good hand), and you take control of the hand. If it flops A high and is checked to you, you can take the pot with one more bet a lot of the time. If it comes low you probably have kicker/s paired under your 77 and are in good position to bet/raise. It's also likely that even if it comes middle cards, the other players may be too scared to bet into you, if they do a raise should get you HU and a free ride to the River. If you catch a 7 with nondescript other cards they just will never put you on a set.

I raise 77 OTB against 1-2 limpers, although it's good to have a read on them to help you after the flop.


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Nate tha' Great
old hand


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 1120
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519382 - 02/09/04 04:36 PM

UTG A8 suited
UTG QJo
UTG 66

All these are about 50/50 fold, raise, depending on table dynamics. It's rare to find a 6-max table where the conditions are right for limping UTG with anything. I like A8s the best of the three.

Button after 2 limpers
ATs raise
A3s limp
A9o fold, usually, though i've limped and raised too
A4o fold
QJs raise usually, sometimes call
KTo raise or limp, unless the game is very aggressive, in which case it has to be folded.
77 slightly prefer limping to raising with two limpers

SB to a button raise

KJo Flat call and look at the flop. This hand gets more good flops than the other two, IMHO.
A7o Fold 80%, raise 20%
33 Fold 70%, raise 30%



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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: daryn]
      #519457 - 02/09/04 05:12 PM

Quote:


Button after 2 limpers

A3s RAISE




Can I ask what your Ace-low sooted stats look like from the button in a SH game. Are there enough #'s to show that raising it there is profitable?


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519477 - 02/09/04 05:20 PM

UTG A8 suited -- fold 75%, limp 12.5%, raise 12.5%
UTG QJo -- fold almost always, occasionally raise
UTG 66 -- limp 40% raise 60%

Button after 2 limpers
ATs - always raise
A3s - usually limp
A9o - usually fold, occasionally raise
A4o - always fold
QJs - always raise
KTo - 80% raise, 20% limp
77 - 50% raise, 50% limp

SB to a button raise -- harder to answer since it is really player oriented. Here is what I would generally do though:

KJo -- call or 3-bet. I don't think I'm folding this one too often against a button steal raise.
A7o -- 3 bet or fold
33 -- if tricky button, fold. Otherwise, likely call and c/r flop


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Nate tha' Great
old hand


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 1120
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Schneids]
      #519485 - 02/09/04 05:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Button after 2 limpers

A3s RAISE




Can I ask what your Ace-low sooted stats look like from the button in a SH game. Are there enough #'s to show that raising it there is profitable?




I can't speak for daryn, however, A2s --> A9s *all* show up as profitable for me, significantly so in some cases. They're good hands in these games. They seem to do somewhat better with a raise rather than a limp.


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ZeeJustin
veteran


Reged: 07/21/03
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern VA (near DC)
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519488 - 02/09/04 05:25 PM

I'm posting this before reading any responses.

UTG A8 suited - raise
UTG QJo - fold
UTG 66 - raise in very profitable games, fold in most

Button after 2 limpers
ATs - raise
A3s - call
A9o - fold
A4o - fold
QJs - raise or call, not sure
KTo - call
77 - call

SB to a button raise
these are all player dependant, but i'll assume a player that wouldn't ever open limp on the button, and will steal at least an average amount
KJo - 3 bet
A7o - 3 bet
33 - fold


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ZeeJustin
veteran


Reged: 07/21/03
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern VA (near DC)
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Schneids]
      #519497 - 02/09/04 05:28 PM

Just a question to you and anyone else that said something like limp X percent of the time, raise X percent of the time.

Is this your attempt to mix up your play, your way of saying it depends on the game, or your way of saying you're not sure? Or a combination of 2 or 3 of the above?


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Schneids
old hand


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 1084
Loc: Eagan, MN
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: ZeeJustin]
      #519553 - 02/09/04 05:51 PM

Quote:

Just a question to you and anyone else that said something like limp X percent of the time, raise X percent of the time.

Is this your attempt to mix up your play, your way of saying it depends on the game, or your way of saying you're not sure? Or a combination of 2 or 3 of the above?




Depends on the game and to mix up my play. A whole heck of a lot of other factors too, such as how much respect are my raises getting. Plus, I looked up a few of those in my PT for 5-6 handed play and gave approximate numbers, since some of them I know that I don't always play it one same exact way each time I am dealt the hand in each position.


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stripsqueez
old hand


Reged: 05/29/03
Posts: 1055
Loc: Adelaide , South Australia
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519567 - 02/09/04 05:59 PM

UTG A8s - raise
UTG QJo - fold
UTG 66 - raise

button after 2 limpers
A10s - big fat raise
A3s - raise
A9o - fold
A4o - fold
QJs - raise
K10o - fold
77 - raise (only because i hate confessing to limping)

SB to a button raise
KJo - fold
A7o - fold
33 - fold

it varies but these are my typical actions - i agree with something nate said about playing out of the blinds in your pokertracker thread - a lot of these decisions are close to neutral in terms of long term EV - i try not to play a lot as i'm busy playing 3 tables and need time to comfortably keep track of my opponents/check for better tables/watch some telly/talk to she who must be obeyed etc etc - if the button is an obvious stealer i will reraise - i would never call unless i had a style to disguise

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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bigpooch
old hand


Reged: 09/17/03
Posts: 759
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #519649 - 02/09/04 06:52 PM

These are my choices in 5-10 (6max) with a rake:

UTG A8 suited: close fold, rarely raise
UTG QJo easy fold, would even muck KJo
UTG 66 raise but I could see mucking this rarely

Button after 2 limpers
ATs almost always raise for value
A3s almost never raise for value; usually call
A9o rarely call; could see a case for a rare raise
A4o fold
QJs call and sometimes raise with this
KTo usually call; would rarely muck this trouble hand here
77 usually call; rarely raise

SB to a button raise

KJo easy call
A7o rarely play this but if you do play it, raise
33 usually call; sometimes muck this and rarely 3bet


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daryn
Carpal \'Tunnel


Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2759
Loc: Boston, MA
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Schneids]
      #519894 - 02/09/04 09:17 PM

when i get my pokertracker data all loaded from my previous pc, i'll let you know

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Azhrarn
member


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Annandale, VA
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #520259 - 02/10/04 12:22 AM

UTG:
I've given up on openlimping in these games, so it's either raise or fold. The answer to all three is I sometimes raise, sometimes fold. In Party 5/10 terms, I'm inclined to raise these on tighter than average tables, but inclined to fold them on the average table. However, on very loose tables, A8s and 66 go up in my estimation again.

Button after two limpers:
ATs Raise! Although I'll limp with it once in a while
A3s Sometimes limp, sometimes fold
A9o I've done all three
A4o Fold most of the time. Maybe limp if opposition is predictable.
QJs Limp. Sometimes raise.
KTo Sometimes call, sometimes fold
77 Sometimes call, sometimes raise

SB to a button raise:
Do you mean open raise, or after limpers? Because KJo is the only one I'd consider playing if it's not an openraise. If it's an open raise by the button, it depends on his looseness and his aggressiveness. I've done all three, but I'd be inclined to fold A7o or 33 unless he's LAG, and I'd fold KJo if he's tight. A7o or 33 I'd prefer to raise if I'm calling, KJo I prefer to call. I do like to occasionally mix it up though.


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gacm
journeyman


Reged: 11/21/03
Posts: 55
Loc: South Australia
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Azhrarn]
      #520589 - 02/10/04 07:27 AM

G'day all,
I'm amazed at the amount of people in this forum that open limp UTG! About the only definite policy that I have in these games (I play 5/10 6max) is that I absolutely NEVER NEVER under ANY circumstances open limp. All other "rules" that I have are game and player specific, but not that. So the UTG play is....
A8s - fold
QJo - YUK! - in the bin!!
66 - raise

The button play with 2 limpers is interesting and I wish I'd answered this before reading other responses as Im afraid it may influence my desision. But anyway...
ATs - RAISE
A3s - limp
A9o - in the bin
A4o - in the bin quicker!!
Reasoning here is that with 2 limpers the T constitutes power and has kicker status (to many Ax limpers!!) where as the A3s has no kicker but has the added the 15% flush advantage so I want the odds and the value of a potential big pot when it hits. As for ANY Ax - complete garbage and I only ever wish my oponents to play them.
QJs - I recon this is game dependant, Has the potential to win a HUGE pot so I dont raise a lot with this hand in this position. I really want the blinds in on this for the pot value.
KTo - I have a personal hatred of this hand, so in the bin she goes!! But if I ever did play it I will retire if I limp with it!!!
77 - Never fold. I would say that I limp more with this hand than raise (stripsqueeze is a closet limper!)

My general play in the SB to a steal (some people have asked whether the button raise is after limpers... If there is a limper there is no steal!!) is the same as opening i.e. [censored], or get of the pot!! (raise or fold for those that dont reconise the phrase)
All 3 = fold in my books, I could see a case for a raise with 33.



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naphand
addict


Reged: 06/16/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Bournemouth, UK
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: gacm]
      #520601 - 02/10/04 07:43 AM

What do you mean by 15% "flush advantage"?

I had making a flush, when holding 2-suited, 7% of the time (or 1 in 14). Anyone know the calculations?


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davidross
old hand


Reged: 09/03/02
Posts: 1021
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: naphand]
      #520638 - 02/10/04 08:33 AM

I believe you will flop a flush draw around 1 in 7.5

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daryn
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Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2759
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: gacm]
      #520867 - 02/10/04 11:43 AM

i'm pretty sure blanket statements like "never open limp" are often incorrect.

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Ulysses
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Reged: 09/02/02
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: gacm]
      #521023 - 02/10/04 01:19 PM

Even in 6-max games, you'll sometimes find games where every time you're UTG and fold, the action behind you goes call-call-call, check. When the pre-flop action is typically like that, you can limp w/ a number of hands UTG that you'd normally fold, but aren't worth open-raising with. This is not the normal case in these games, but it definitely happens. A big part of beating these games is adjusting your play to the texture of the table, which, in a 6-max game, can be completely changed by one player.

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Canada Kelly
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #521038 - 02/10/04 01:28 PM

UTG A8 suited - raise
UTG Qjo - fold
UTG 66 - fold

Button after 2 limpers
ATs - raise
A3s - call
A9o - fold
A4o - fold
Qjs - raise
Kto - call
77 - borderline call/raise

SB to a button raise

Kjo - call
A7o - fold
33 - borderline fold/reraise


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naphand
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #521691 - 02/10/04 06:16 PM

Yes but I was talking about MAKING a flush when you have 2-suited. A flush draw is a draw, not a winning hand and I was thinking, rather than how often I will get a flush draw, but how often I will make the flush with 2-suited.

If it is 1 in 7.5, and you make 1 in 3 of those, you are making your flush 1 in 22.5 times you have 2-suited or about 4.5%, which seems a bit low to me. I suppose you can add to this figure the time you flop a flush, but that still is not more than 1%, so still very low.

Anyone else care to comment or have figures for this, I'm pretty sure it's not 15%.


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naphand
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: daryn]
      #521694 - 02/10/04 06:18 PM

Absolutely.

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naphand
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Ulysses]
      #521697 - 02/10/04 06:19 PM

This was part of the thinking behind the "loose games" thread. If you are in a game where you can see flops cheap a lot of the time, you can begin to limp in with some hands that you would not want to raise with, but there are still positional considerations which need to be addressed.

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stripsqueez
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: naphand]
      #521725 - 02/10/04 06:32 PM

do you think it might be right to say that if you flopped 5 random cards that about 60% of the time it would contain 3 or more of one suit ? - i dont know and cant be bothered doing the maths but it sounds right - gacm's maths is always right

stripsqueez - chickenhawk


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J.R.
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: naphand]
      #521822 - 02/10/04 07:30 PM

What do you mean by 15% "flush advantage"?

I suspect he is refering to the fact that 15% of the time you will flop flush outs with Axs, so with Axo you may only flop overcard or gutshot outs that you will rarely have the odds to draw to, 15% of the time Axs will afford you additional flush outs that present you with the odds to call, permiting you to take advantage of your other outs as well, so being suited is worth more than just the flush outs the 15% of the time you flop a flush.


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bigpooch
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: stripsqueez]
      #522010 - 02/10/04 09:43 PM

No, it's not that big! There are 2598960 draw poker hands
and 5108+40=flushes or straight flushes. I happen to know
that there are 111540 flush draws (including made straights)
and so all that is required is to find combinations of three
of one suit and two of the other suits: there are 4xC(13,3)x
C(39,2)= 847704. Adding all of these give 964392 out of
2598960 or 37.106%.

Of course, if you believe in conspiracy theories, or think
that three flushes hit the table disproportionately so that
there are more confrontations and ergo a bigger rake, then
you would expect that number to be higher!


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Izverg04
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Schneids]
      #675578 - 05/10/04 05:30 AM

Quote:

KTo - 80% raise, 20% limp




Schneids, is this for real? I've just decided that overplaying KT and QT is the biggest preflop leak for me in 6-handed, then I read this, and start questioning myself again.

I would probably 70% limp, 30% fold KT after limpers.


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goodguy_1
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Izverg04]
      #676091 - 05/10/04 12:28 PM

this is an awesome thread which I missed!! thnx for the inadvertent bump

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Schneids
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: Izverg04]
      #679201 - 05/11/04 07:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

KTo - 80% raise, 20% limp




Schneids, is this for real? I've just decided that overplaying KT and QT is the biggest preflop leak for me in 6-handed, then I read this, and start questioning myself again.

I would probably 70% limp, 30% fold KT after limpers.




I've tightened up some since then. I'd say I now do a fairly equal mix of all three options. If there is one limper we can bump it towards a raise and if there is 2 limpers we can bump it more towards a fold. For me to raise KTo against two limpers now, I need two tight blinds and poor playing, predictable limpers.


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obex
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: naphand]
      #680823 - 05/12/04 02:40 PM

The odds of making a flush after being dealt two suited cards is 16.3:1 or 5.8%

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BigBiceps
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #681317 - 05/12/04 06:23 PM

UTG A8 suited raise
UTG QJo call
UTG 66 raise

Button after 2 limpers
ATs raise
A3s raise
A9o raise
A4o fold
QJs raise
KTo call
77 raise

SB to a button raise (assuming no limpers)
KJo call
A7o fold
33 fold


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fyodor
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Posts: 596
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Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: BigBiceps]
      #682442 - 05/13/04 10:13 AM

There's not a holding there that I would fold. Whether I would raise or call would depend on how I felt about the other people at the table.

3 Exceptions:
QJo utg - it would be a rare table where I would raise this
A4o & KTo after limpers - ditto


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fyodor
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Posts: 596
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One Month Later [Re: fyodor]
      #747574 - 06/11/04 02:44 PM

One month later and boy have I changed my mind on this:

UTG A8 suited RAISE
UTG QJo RAISE but leaning now to folding
UTG 66 RAISE but also leaning to folding

Button after 2 limpers
ATs RAISE
A3s CALL
A9o CALL
A4o FOLD
QJs CALL
KTo CALL
77 CALL

SB to a button raise

KJo RAISE sometimes fold
A7o RAISE sometimes fold
33 FOLD


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UMTerp
newbie


Reged: 10/06/03
Posts: 26
Re: Back to Basics. What do you do pre-flop [Re: davidross]
      #747616 - 06/11/04 02:58 PM

UTG A8 suited - Fold
UTG QJo - Raise
UTG 66 - Raise

Button after 2 limpers
ATs - Raise
A3s - Call
A9o - Raise
A4o - Fold
QJs - Raise
KTo - Fold?
77 - Raise

SB to a button raise

KJo - Raise
A7o - Usually Fold
33 - Usually Fold


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