alimomoney
stranger
Reged: 05/04/05
Posts: 2
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I've played at Empire for 3 or 4 years. Not a lot, but always when Empire offers a reload bonus. I haven't played there for maybe 3 weeks since their last reload bonus. I cleared and cashed out. Last night, I get a message from paypro saying I had to call them or my account would be blocked. (Which account, Party? Empire? MultiPoker? or ?)
I call, give them my account name and say I have to email vip@empirepoker.com. So I write and get a reply that my account has been closed for "business reasons" and the decision is final. I write back and ask why. No response. All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
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SinSixer
enthusiast
Reged: 03/30/05
Posts: 210
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Quote:
alimomoney
stranger
Reged: 05/04/05
Posts: 1
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MEbenhoe
addict
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 410
Loc: La Crosse, WI
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Quote:
All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
Sweet
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Freudian
stranger
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 24
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This topic hasn't even dropped off the first page yet
I wouldn't be surprised if they kill my account also. I mostly play there for reload bonuses. It's not like I am a valued customer, quite the opposite.
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Eder
enthusiast
Reged: 06/08/04
Posts: 278
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Well I suppose its easy enough to create a new account then?
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krazyace5
addict
Reged: 11/17/03
Posts: 461
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Quote:
Well I suppose its easy enough to create a new account then?
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RandomFluke
journeyman
Reged: 01/05/05
Posts: 56
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can they ban your ip address? Currently, what is to stop someone from making 20 accounts and just whoring the sign-up bonus anyway? Not that *I* would ever do such a thing, but if I did what kind of trouble could I get into i wonder?
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JRussell
journeyman
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 62
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Quote:
can they ban your ip address? Currently, what is to stop someone from making 20 accounts and just whoring the sign-up bonus anyway? Not that *I* would ever do such a thing, but if I did what kind of trouble could I get into i wonder?
At the very least they are tracking your IP address, if not your MAC address too.
You can probably set up 20 accounts but they'll never let you cashout any of them. The first time you try to cash one out they will freeze them all and confiscate the funds.
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dacubbie
newbie
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 49
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Were you at least able to recover your funds?
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dfscott
journeyman
Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 57
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Quote:
This topic hasn't even dropped off the first page yet
I wouldn't be surprised if they kill my account also. I mostly play there for reload bonuses. It's not like I am a valued customer, quite the opposite.
I'm the opposite of this -- I play all the time at Empire, and only do the reloads at Party, so I'll be interested in seeing if I get my party account locked (especially since I just set myself up as an affiliate there).
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flair1239
enthusiast
Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Quote:
All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
Sweet
I can't say I blame them. I would not do to much complaining if I lost my Party Account.
I play on Eurobet and only hit Party for bonuses.
If they apply this universally it could be very good for the games on the Party network.
One account on the skins per person, rigidly enforced= no more 8-16 tablers. Which would probably result in a few less tables, but a higher fish concentration at each table. Also maybe they would not go broke so quickly.
Before they star doing this universally though, I wish they would resolve the Rakeback situation one way or the other.
If there is to be no more RB period on the Party Skins, I would just go back to my Party Account. IF they leave it alone, then I would stay at Eurobet.
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afk
member
Reged: 02/09/04
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
Sweet
I can't say I blame them.
I suppose I can't really blame them either. I primarily play on Party and Stars, and only Empire when there's a reload. The way that I've played the Empire reloads (.5/1 and 1/2 mainly) means that all in all they've lost money on my business (I've received more in bonus than I've paid in rake). It would suck to lose my Empire account but I suppose I can't really blame them.
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MEbenhoe
addict
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 410
Loc: La Crosse, WI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
Sweet
One account on the skins per person, rigidly enforced= no more 8-16 tablers. Which would probably result in a few less tables, but a higher fish concentration at each table. Also maybe they would not go broke so quickly.
this would be sweeter than them booting all the bonus whores
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TheHammer24
enthusiast
Reged: 04/14/05
Posts: 335
Loc: Changing my skirt
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Did you get the cashout or did they confiscate the funds? I have signed up, deposited, and cleared bonuses at Eurobet, Party Poker, and Empire in the past week. I currently don't have any money in those accounts, should I worry about opening up an Intertops account?
Edited by TheHammer24 (05/05/05 01:59 PM)
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Freudian
stranger
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Did you get the cashout or did they confiscate the funds? I have signed up, deposited, and cleared bonuses at Eurobet, Party Poker, and Empire in the past week. I currently don't have any money in those accounts, should I worry about opening up an Intertops account?
Why on earth would they confiscate funds? No one has done anything wrong here, apart from being an unprofitable customer to Empire.
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TheHammer24
enthusiast
Reged: 04/14/05
Posts: 335
Loc: Changing my skirt
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Quote:
Why on earth would they confiscate funds? No one has done anything wrong here, apart from being an unprofitable customer to Empire.
Easy. Ok, so I can still whore these skins until they shut down my account?
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StellarWind
old hand
Reged: 02/02/04
Posts: 704
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Imagine that the six Party skins agreed that all players could only have one account. Perhaps it would be wherever you first signed up. Suppose they decided to implement it without notice one day. What would happen?
1. Customer service would be crushed by the resulting volume of inquiries.
2. The cashier service would be crushed by all the withdrawals it would have to process as it returned money to holders of closed accounts.
3. The inevitable honest mistakes (e.g. duplicate names, lost withdrawals) would not be cleaned up in a timely way because everyone would be swamped.
4. Large number of players would be shocked, confused, angry, or simply unprepared to play at their correct site. Some people might not have any money in their remaining account. Table counts would plunge in the short term as people waited for the dust to settle before resigning themselves to their fate and resuming play at their assigned skin. PokerPulse would take notice of the sudden drop.
5. The magnitude of the chaos would cause bad publicity. Maybe even a panic.
Sounds like a bad plan, eh? Maybe it would be a good idea to phase in any extreme changes? Spread the workload and let people get used to the new reality.
My point is that just because we only see a few people being affected means nothing. Whatever it is they are doing, it only makes sense that it would start slowly.
What happens next is anyone's guess.
One thing is clear. Trust and goodwill toward the Party skins is dropping on a daily basis in the 2+2 forums and all the other player forums. For example, have you noticed how many posters in recent days seem to be afraid of having their money stolen (confiscated) by the skins!? People afraid to deposit money and play legitimate bonuses? People afraid the Party network won't let them play on any skin anymore?
Trust is hard to win and easy to lose. Party and friends may suffer for years to come for their current activities. Word-of-mouth is powerful and on the internet it lingers almost forever.
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Synergistic Explosions
enthusiast
Reged: 06/29/04
Posts: 391
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When a site rakes .50 at $5.00 pots, do they really expect players to be happy and play there without clearing a bonus?
Hell ya they expect that! What pricks!
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PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR
stranger
Reged: 07/06/04
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Imagine that the six Party skins agreed that all players could only have one account. Perhaps it would be wherever you first signed up. Suppose they decided to implement it without notice one day. What would happen?
1. Customer service would be crushed by the resulting volume of inquiries.
2. The cashier service would be crushed by all the withdrawals it would have to process as it returned money to holders of closed accounts.
3. The inevitable honest mistakes (e.g. duplicate names, lost withdrawals) would not be cleaned up in a timely way because everyone would be swamped.
4. Large number of players would be shocked, confused, angry,
5. The magnitude of the chaos would cause bad publicity. Maybe even a panic.
This is what I've been thinking. Those of you who have been zapped have to COMPLAIN. Act innocent, because you are innocent. But we have to make each account closure like pulling teeth for them.
Complain, bitch, call up support and act befuddled.... we need to let them know that this will not be an easy process to close even one account.
Honestly, they have an alternative. Just make sure they can't lose money on reloads (this may mean 10x requirements), but that is better than mass closings of accounts.
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witeknite
member
Reged: 07/16/04
Posts: 121
Loc: Finally at Party
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potd
WiteKnite
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MicroBob
veteran
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: memphis
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Quote:
so I'll be interested in seeing if I get my party account locked
I would be more interested in seeing if ANYONE here with more than 1 post reports having the same problem.
Since this hasn't happened common sense would dictate that it is worth doubting the OP's claim.
Besides...even HE doesn't know why they canned his account:
Quote:
No response. All I can think is that they are booting bonus whores.
Maybe empire thought he was involved in chip-dumping or collusion or something else. Since he hasn't called them to find out more NOR replied to his own thread here we just don't know.
I don't think the conclusion that Empire is dumping ANY (much less ALL) bonus-whores is a very intelligent approach since we have ZERO evidence that this is the case.
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flair1239
enthusiast
Reged: 07/12/04
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Imagine that the six Party skins agreed that all players could only have one account. Perhaps it would be wherever you first signed up. Suppose they decided to implement it without notice one day. What would happen?
1. Customer service would be crushed by the resulting volume of inquiries.
2. The cashier service would be crushed by all the withdrawals it would have to process as it returned money to holders of closed accounts.
3. The inevitable honest mistakes (e.g. duplicate names, lost withdrawals) would not be cleaned up in a timely way because everyone would be swamped.
4. Large number of players would be shocked, confused, angry, or simply unprepared to play at their correct site. Some people might not have any money in their remaining account. Table counts would plunge in the short term as people waited for the dust to settle before resigning themselves to their fate and resuming play at their assigned skin. PokerPulse would take notice of the sudden drop.
5. The magnitude of the chaos would cause bad publicity. Maybe even a panic.
Sounds like a bad plan, eh? Maybe it would be a good idea to phase in any extreme changes? Spread the workload and let people get used to the new reality.
My point is that just because we only see a few people being affected means nothing. Whatever it is they are doing, it only makes sense that it would start slowly.
What happens next is anyone's guess.
One thing is clear. Trust and goodwill toward the Party skins is dropping on a daily basis in the 2+2 forums and all the other player forums. For example, have you noticed how many posters in recent days seem to be afraid of having their money stolen (confiscated) by the skins!? People afraid to deposit money and play legitimate bonuses? People afraid the Party network won't let them play on any skin anymore?
Trust is hard to win and easy to lose. Party and friends may suffer for years to come for their current activities. Word-of-mouth is powerful and on the internet it lingers almost forever.
At this point I wish they would just issue a blanket policy statement and then actually enforce it.
They have created this mess themseleves. Since Istarted playing a year ago, on every forum the information on how to open multiple accounts on skins and how to secure rakeback is openly publicised.
They chose to look the other way because they were greedy. As long as the multi-tablers were limited to a relatively small group, it did not matter to Party whether an 8-tabler was playing four on Party and 4 on empire. IT was a win win situation.
Well now they have a mess, most people have accounts on 2-4 skins. The less ethical among us have gnome accounts . Bonus whoring is now a science.
They chose to look the other way on a lot of things, now they have a big mess that needs to be cleaned up.
I love my Rake back account at Eurobet. But if it is to be lost, so be it.
I think that even as players we should be able to accept certain things may be good for the game:
1. Excessive multi-tabling is probably bad for the game in the long term. After a certain point it becomes harmful. The benefits are having additional games available and increased rake generation for the time being. However, after a certain point this weights the games to the tougher side and probably results in having fish bust out at an accelerated pace. So in the long term this is not good for the site. At what point this is reached I do not know.
2. It should be understandable that a site does not want business from players that result in a long term -MGR.
3. Although rake back is a great thing, the skins have really canniablaised(sp?) many of the customers from the original Party site. Most of these are players who probably put in 15,000+ hands a month easy. This does IGM no good in the long term.
So anyway. I think if they are going to do something it should be consistent across the board. I also think that their security team should aggressively pursue and punish dummy accounts. For a large company they run a very slip shod operation in some areas. If they decide to clean up I will respect that. But they must be consistent.
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PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR
stranger
Reged: 07/06/04
Posts: 15
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Quote:
I would be more interested in seeing if ANYONE here with more than 1 post reports having the same problem.
There were 2 or 3 long term posters in the BW thread who had their accounts frozen (Empire mostly). It appears to be happening for real, but slowly at first.
I would like to find out:
Is this happening only to people with gnome accounts (multi-at-same-skin)?
Is this happening only to low limit players who only play when clearing a bonus?
Is it based on the number of accounts at your IP address (even legit. family members)?
It would be interesting to figure out their targeting methodology.
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MicroBob
veteran
Reged: 09/19/03
Posts: 1245
Loc: memphis
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Quote:
There were 2 or 3 long term posters in the BW thread who had their accounts frozen (Empire mostly). It appears to be happening for real, but slowly at first.
This DEFINITELY changes things then.
Lot of those BW guys have more than 1 account at a skin though (gnome-accounts) but they also don't have a problem admitting it when they do so I'm not sure if that is a factor or not.
Between the pokernor rake-back thing and a couple other little incidents it does indeed appear likely that we may be in for more changes.
Someone else commented:
Quote:
most people have accounts on 2-4 skins.
I don't think this is true at all.
Many 2+2'ers have accounts at various skins.
A majority of party players do not however.
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grimel
old hand
Reged: 03/19/05
Posts: 1017
Loc: south east USA
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Quote:
I don't think the conclusion that Empire is dumping ANY (much less ALL) bonus-whores is a very intelligent approach since we have ZERO evidence that this is the case.
Shhh! Waite! Nope, I don't hear the 2+2 whores screaming.
Sniff, sniff, hmmm, this smells like bovine feces. Seems to be another round of site bashing, did school just let out for the summer?
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LSUfan1
newbie
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Midwest
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Not counting the recent problems with Granny having her little old heart broken, we generally give a bit of influence to the post count here. This is not to say that someone who has one post cannot be relied on, but do we have the whole story?
Generally, posters will give us a bit more information regarding these types of allegations.
Have any of our long time posting bonus whores been banned yet?
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bobbyi
stranger
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Many 2+2'ers have accounts at various skins.
A majority of party players do not however.
Yeah. I think a large percentage of people playing on party don't even understand what a skin is or know that it would be possible to have accounts on different ones.
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Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!
stranger
Reged: 04/26/04
Posts: 0
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looks like you cant play against TSC now...
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grimel
old hand
Reged: 03/19/05
Posts: 1017
Loc: south east USA
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Quote:
4. Large number of players would be shocked, confused, angry, or simply unprepared to play at their correct site. Some people might not have any money in their remaining account. Table counts would plunge in the short term as people waited for the dust to settle before resigning themselves to their fate and resuming play at their assigned skin. PokerPulse would take notice of the sudden drop.
One thing is clear. Trust and goodwill toward the Party skins is dropping on a daily basis in the 2+2 forums and all the other player forums.
What has Party done that makes you think they care one iota about the FEW high volume players? If the FEW volume players left enmass the fish would swap money around all day and night until Pary had raked it all.
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LSUfan1
newbie
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
I don't think the conclusion that Empire is dumping ANY (much less ALL) bonus-whores is a very intelligent approach since we have ZERO evidence that this is the case.
As usual, the cat is the voice of reason!
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jek187
veteran
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 1208
Loc: jekland
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Quote:
we generally give a bit of influence to the post count here.
I find registration date to be a better indicator of influence than post count. We have no shortage of posters who post crap all day long and have inflated post counts. But there's not too many people from 2002, early 2003 that do that.
Anyways, we have a couple long time posters on BW confirming this. I would link to the thread, but that would make me naughty. This is for real.
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bobbyi
stranger
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Anyways, we have a couple long time posters on BW confirming this. I would link to the thread, but that would make me naughty.
Why is it inappropriate to link to a bw thread? Can you summarize what you have heard? Was money seized? Are they allowed to keep one account to play on and just have to close the extras? Is this only happening to people who have multiple accounts on the same skin or do other egregious things?
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mmbt0ne
old hand
Reged: 08/18/04
Posts: 700
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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En réponse à:
looks like you cant play against TSC now...
AWESOME
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bobbyi
stranger
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
There were 2 or 3 long term posters in the BW thread who had their accounts frozen (Empire mostly).
I'm a bit confused about what they say has happened. Only their empire accounts were frozen and they could continue to play on other skins? Or they have been completely cut off from playing on any party site? I wouldn't care about losing my empire account, but I would surely care if I couldn't play any of the games on party at all.
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Cubswin
old hand
Reged: 05/31/03
Posts: 1079
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Anyways, we have a couple long time posters on BW confirming this. I would link to the thread, but that would make me naughty.
Put a ball gag in my mouth and call be naughty
link
link
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solucky
journeyman
Reged: 07/31/04
Posts: 50
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seems they closed mostly the " ONLY BONUS" Players. I play normally min 2 - 4000 hands on any skin, so i think i am not involved
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Cubswin
old hand
Reged: 05/31/03
Posts: 1079
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seems they closed mostly the " ONLY BONUS" Players.
i highly doubt this is the case because at a certain level of play (i think 1/2 limit and up maybe) they are still making money from bonus whores. I really dont know at what limit they still profit from whoring because i havnt migrated my PT database from my old machine so i dont have access to raw data. would someone with some PT and access to data at several different levels of play care to do some calculations and figure out at what point empire loses money from whoring...
cubs
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Vern
newbie
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Quote:
so I'll be interested in seeing if I get my party account locked
I would be more interested in seeing if ANYONE here with more than 1 post reports having the same problem.
Happened to me in the last two days. All attempts to negotiate with them have failed. I last played there 4/11, clearing a bonus, but the only time they quoted terms and conditions it was the part about account abandonment. Just an e-mail out of the blue, "we tried to call, please e-mail or call us." I did that, they said send an e-mail to vip@empirepoker.com and the response back was sorry your account is closed. Yes I have accounts on each skin, using the ame e-mail and name. The only one I play at other than for bonuses is Party and Intertops so I cannot blame them, empire was in effect losing money on my play.
Vern
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bobbyi
stranger
Reged: 11/14/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I did that, they said send an e-mail to vip@empirepoker.com and the response back was sorry your account is closed. Yes I have accounts on each skin, using the ame e-mail and name. Th
Are your accounts on the other skins fine?
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Vern
newbie
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 46
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So far, I play mostly on other sites because I never got in on a good party skin rake back, a less than high rate one at intertops and had my PokerNow one go bust back in March with all the other PokerNows so I play/whore other sites.
So far, empire is the only place to have issue with my play. I checked, I have hit them up for $400 in initial deposit bonus and re-load and my exact rake for that account is only $238, so other than the $0.97 left in the account I still whored out on the deal.
Vern
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bottomset
old hand
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 911
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so if you play a fair amount at each skin each month, in non-reload periods you should be fine right?
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Vern
newbie
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 46
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We don't know yet. Right now, all I can say is I am sure my Empire account is closed. They won't give me a reason, that makes sense (they quoted abandonment, but that takes 180 days of inactivity). And during the year I have been on empire, I have made more in bonuses than my MGR. From what is posted here and elsewhere, I think they are cleaning up the bonus whores before their next reload on 5/10. IMHO
Vern
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TxBuckeye
stranger
Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 6
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I'm another who's account was closed. My wife's has not been closed. We only play at ANY Party skin during a reload. We have never colluded, chip dumped, or anything even remotely dishonest. So yes, it looks as if bonus whores are being targetted. Oh, we play $1/2 mostly.
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stir
stranger
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 6
Loc: In transition to a soft $10/20
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The evidence is building that Empire has insititued a major change not tolerating BW's.
Can anyone else please report they had their account closed?
How long before this policy is implemented at Party, Intertops, and so on (rhetorical)?
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BigBluffer
member
Reged: 08/31/03
Posts: 101
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Yep, me too! Just noticed it today when I tried to login. Got a popup message that my account has been temporarily frozen and was given a number to call. Called that number and was told to email vip@empirepoker.com with my screen name and ask for the reason and to get the account opened. Vip's reply was:
"Thank you for your e-mail.
This account has been randomly checked and found to consist with suspicious and wrongful actions that we don't support at EmpirePoker.com. As a result, we regret to inform you that the account has been closed permanently by the Management. The process is unfortunately not reversible and we thank you for the time you played with us.
For further information please refer to our terms and conditions. http://www.empirepoker.com/about_us/legal_information.html "
My reply to that was:
"Please explain in detail what the "suspicious and wrongful actions" were that caused my account to be closed."
Their resopnse:
"Unfortunately we cannot provide you with any further information. The account has been closed due to a Management decision and is final and irreversable."
My reply:
"You've told me I've done something "suspicious and wrongful," yet you won't tell me what it is, and you won't give me a chance to defend myself? Does Empire Poker wish to be known for dealing unilaterally and unfairly with its customers?
I will be posting the substance of our correspondences on all of the Internet Poker Forums. Good luck with your site in the future."
Haven't heard anything back from them since (about an hour).
Since I opened my account in January, I have only played Empire to clear bonuses, a mix of $0.50/$1 and $1/$2 limit hold'em. I have cleared $550 in bonuses and paid $122 in rake according to PT. I signed up with a supposedly reputable affiliate who frequently posts on this forum. This was before I was aware of the benefits awaiting a low-limit whore like myself. Obviously, I have not received any rakeback since my MGR is highly negative (thus I am not expecting any rakeback). This is in no way any reflection on my affiliate. I'm just adding this in the interest of full disclosure.
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PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR
stranger
Reged: 07/06/04
Posts: 15
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Quote:
I will be posting the substance of our correspondences on all of the Internet Poker Forums. Good luck with your site in the future."
You should do just this. I checked CardPlayer forum and RGP, and saw nothing on this issue. These and other forums need to know what is going on now before this goes too far.
Everyone who plays Empire including the fish needs to know that they are closing accounts randomly without explaination.
If you are having a problem people, COMPLAIN everywhere that you can.
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sfwusc
old hand
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 742
Loc: Moving out of the kiddie Pool
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If you play $2/$4 and up then your MGR will not be negative.
I do play accross all the account expect intertops.
I am all good.
SFWUSC
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jek187
veteran
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 1208
Loc: jekland
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Quote:
would someone with some PT and access to data at several different levels of play care to do some calculations and figure out at what point empire loses money from whoring...
This is amount of rake generated over the course of 500 raked hands. I trust everyone here can extrapolate this out to 700, 1,000 or whatever raked hands:
$.50/$1.00: $33.08 (sample size 2,519 hands)
$1/$2: $37.37 (sample size 3,270 hands)
$1/$2 6Max: $64.86 (sample size 14,396 hands)
$2/$4: $88.03 (sample size 6,266 hands)
$3/$6: $116.38 (sample size 7,795 hands)
5x, $3/$6 or bigger play is profitable
7x, $2/$4 or bigger play is profitable
10x, $1/$2 SH or $2/$4 FR or bigger play is profitable
Need about a 15x for a $.50/$1 player to be profitable.
I do realize, but have ignored, that sites have processing costs associated with moving money around.
And you're a good naughty CW 
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Two Plus Two 
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