what can I learn at the micro level???
 

I've been reading Weighing the Odds and the Miller/Malmuth book on limit poker, and playing the 10./20. limit games due to my small starting bankroll.

However, I can't put anybody on a hand at this level because they play everything. I feel like all that I'm reading takes for granted that my opponents have half a brain for the game, which they don't seem to at this level.

How can I become a better player at this level? If not this level, where do I need to start?? Thanks kindly for any advice.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

Focus on the Miller/Malmuth book (Small Stakes Hold'em). Realize that your opponents play terribly and focus on things like when you should check/raise the field versus betting for value. Notice which of your opponents make plays which make sense and which will raise with any 2 cards at any time. It's unlikely you'll be able to say your opponent has exactly ATo, but try to think of hands they might play that way ("perhaps he has an ace or a king here" or "he wouldn't cap that river without a flush").

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

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I've been reading Weighing the Odds and the Miller/Malmuth book on limit poker, and playing the 10./20. limit games due to my small starting bankroll.

However, I can't put anybody on a hand at this level because they play everything.

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Hand reading is valuable, but that's not what you should be focusing on when you first start. You need to know how to play *YOUR* hand before you start worrying about how everyone else is playing *THEIR* hand.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been reading Weighing the Odds and the Miller/Malmuth book on limit poker, and playing the 10./20. limit games due to my small starting bankroll.

However, I can't put anybody on a hand at this level because they play everything. I feel like all that I'm reading takes for granted that my opponents have half a brain for the game, which they don't seem to at this level.


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Well, if your opponents have no standards then you can indeed put them on a hand...a bad one. Miller's book is written for this situation. You play better than average hands against opponents who play average and worse hands you will make money over time.

I have played a fair number of hands at the .05/.10 level and I've found that while players will start with anything and everything at these levels, they tend to play pretty straightforward from the flop on. If they are betting strong (this means betting out or raising) when it looks like they would have to be playing 83o, well they probably entered the pot with 83o. Otherwise they tend to check/call/muck.

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How can I become a better player at this level? If not this level, where do I need to start?? Thanks kindly for any advice.

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Figure out how to beat this level. If you can't beat a game when your opponents don't have half a brain, why do you think you can beat a game when your opponents have three-quarters of a brain or more?

That said, you will experience many bad beats to that 83o cold calling your pocket aces and flopping two pair on his way to a boat. But, this is more than made up for when that same guy bets and raises his raggedy two pair against your set of aces (or even trips aces) all the way to the river.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

Like said above read SSHE by Miller, it will teach you to rip these games apart.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

You will learn how to play in very loose games!

Seriously, plaing at this level can help with a couple of things: (1) hand protection. With that many players sticking around, you must protect your hands. (2) Board reading. If eight people see a hand to the river, they are going to hit some pretty wild draws. Plaing with loose players will train you to spot all possible draws/hands.

If you just can't take the looseness, do a little bonus whoring or get one of those "instant bankroll" deals and play higher (maybe .25/.50 or .50/1).

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

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That said, you will experience many bad beats to that 83o cold calling your pocket aces and flopping two pair on his way to a boat. But, this is more than made up for when that same guy bets and raises his raggedy two pair against your set of aces (or even trips aces) all the way to the river.

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And controlling your emotions when this happens is another valuable lesson that can be learned at this level.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

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You need to know how to play *YOUR* hand before you start worrying about how everyone else is playing *THEIR* hand.

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This is a great point. Playing solid ABC poker at that limit takes the money, there are plenty of lessons to be learned.

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

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the Miller/Malmuth book on limit poker

[/ QUOTE ] Don't forget David Sklansky, also an author of that book. People here usually refer to it as SSH, for Small Stakes Holdem.

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and playing the 10./20

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I assume you mean the ten cent/twent cent games. These are a great place to start playing. The players are usually very bad, and a skilled player should have little trouble beating them. Also, it won't cost you much if you have a bad run or aren't very good yet. I believe poker stars has some extremely low limit games, as low as .01/.02 if I recall correctly. Those players are definitely very bad.

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However, I can't put anybody on a hand at this level because they play everything. I feel like all that I'm reading takes for granted that my opponents have half a brain for the game, which they don't seem to at this level.

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Typically, you shouldn't be putting your opponents on *a* hand but rather a range of possible hands. You are correct that poor players will play a much wider range of hands than good players. This is still very important information, because there are many more bad hands than good hands. SSH definitely takes this into account; in fact, it is specifically written about this sort of game. WTOIH doesn't exclusively address loose opponents, though it does contain some very useful advice.

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How can I become a better player at this level? If not this level, where do I need to start?? Thanks kindly for any advice.

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I think those two books are a poor starting point for a novice. If you aren't already well-versed in poker theory and have little limit experience, I think you'll find Ed Miller's other book, Getting Started in Holdem, to be an excellent introduction. You should be able to buy it online for around $15 shipped.

You are on the right track. Read and reread SSH, play a few thousand hands, analyze your hand histories, and participate in this forum.

An effective method to participate is to give your analysis of a hand that has only a few replies, but before you read any of the replies. Then pay attention to any responses you get. If you are wrong, you will usually find out pretty quickly.

Good luck!

Re: what can I learn at the micro level???
 

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I've been reading Weighing the Odds and the Miller/Malmuth book on limit poker, and playing the 10./20. limit games due to my small starting bankroll.

However, I can't put anybody on a hand at this level because they play everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand reading is valuable, but that's not what you should be focusing on when you first start. You need to know how to play *YOUR* hand before you start worrying about how everyone else is playing *THEIR* hand.

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I highly agree with this as well. From my experience, even at higher limits like 1/2 this is still the case. ABC poker wins.