Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

To decide who goes to the shops, my flatmates and I played a hand of Irish Holdem, with the worst hand going to the shop. It's better than texas holdem or cutting high card for that kind of thing, since there`s at least a bit of decision making in one hand. For those not familiar with Irish Holdem, it's similar to Omaha, in that each player is dealt 4 starting cards - but on the flop, each player must discard two of them. It makes for some interesting situations, and in this case, the worst hand was going to the shop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The hand in question provoked a bit of discussion, and I'd like to see if anyone here has any thoughts or insights. After the hand was over, the discussion was whether my flatmate played his hand optimally.

He was dealt 8-9-10-10, and the flop came J-Q-A. I forget the suits, but they didn`t come into the question. Now bearing in mind there are 3 of us in the hand, each with 4 cards, my flatmate caused a bit of controversy when he ditched a made hand (10`s), and kept 9-10 for open ended straight draw.

His reasoning was that with two other players in the hand, each with 4 cards, his 10`s were beat. I think this was a bad move. Remember, the aim in this situation is to just not have the worst hand. Best hand, and second best hand aren`t going to the shop. With his draw, I figure he will be going to the shop 2/3 times (assuming if he hits, he`s not going, and he is if he misses).

He, however, reasoned that with a flop of 3 overcards, his 10`s were most likely beat, and by going for the draw, had at least a 1/3 chance of not going to the shop. To justify this, I think he`d have to be sure his 10`s have a worse than 1/3 chance of being a "not go to the shop hand" to ditch them... and with 3 overcards, and two opponents each with 4 cards, maybe he's not such a muppet for ditching a made hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Any thoughts on this? I found it interesting, in that the numbers are nice - 3 players, 2-1 against the straight, and in that you aren`t trying to make the _best_ hand as such, but just not the worst hand.

I'd like to hear what anyone else has to say on the play, as well as the way we're approaching the analysis.. cheers guys! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

T9 has 7 outs to improve to a big hand: 4 kings and 3 eights.

TT has 6 outs to improve to a big hand: 4 kings and 2 tens.

I think it is clearly right to hold the pair of tens since the chance of not losing, unimproved, only has to be a few percent to make up for losing one out.

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

I don't know the odds off-hand, of two players, each with 4 cards, not having an A, a Q, or a J. But I think it's (36/45) to the power of 4, squared, or ~ .168.

In any case, he's still drawing if he keeps his tens. He has four K's, for the nut straight, plus two T's, for a total of six outs.

On the other hand, he picks up two additional outs if breaks up his tens. Breaking up a hand that might not lose, even unimproved, in order to pick up two additional outs seems wrong to me, although I'm not sure how to calculate it more exactly than that.

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

You're right - he already threw away the 8. That makes it that much worse.

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

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my flatmates and I

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flatmates are so much better than roomates.

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

Anybody ever think of turning this into a drinking game?

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody ever think of turning this into a drinking game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its called IRISH Holdem....

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

[ QUOTE ]
T9 has 7 outs to improve to a big hand: 4 kings and 3 eights.

TT has 6 outs to improve to a big hand: 4 kings and 2 tens.

I think it is clearly right to hold the pair of tens since the chance of not losing, unimproved, only has to be a few percent to make up for losing one out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. Now you know what this means don't you Ringo, you have to play this game for all such menial tasks, as your mate is crap at the game! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anybody ever think of turning this into a drinking game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its called IRISH Holdem....

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, easy there. One more comment about the irish and i'll have to put my beer down and do something about it.

Re: Interesting \"Irish Holdem\" problem..
 

he should've kept the 8T instead of the 9T