An interesting development...
 

BB is LAG, no read on UTG.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero... &lt;SNIP&gt;

Re: An interesting development...
 

Why did you stay past the flop?

Re: An interesting development...
 

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Why did you stay past the flop?

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Why did you stay past the flop?

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The flop call was a bit light, but with no preflop aggression I felt the 5 outs were probably good. I realize it was only 7.5:1 pots odds and I really should have 8:1, but implied odds and knowing BB would bet any piece of it, yadda yadda, should I still fold?

Re: An interesting development...
 

You would have felt comfortable if the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] had came instead of the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] At best you would have to check/call it down I think. I say you have closer to 4 outs than 5, making it a clear fold.

Re: An interesting development...
 

I raise this flop against a LAG who might just bet at an A he might 3bet and get UTG to fold. Maybe i'm too aggressive, on the other hand if I respect the BB I fold, but I don't think you are neccesarily behind on this flop.

Re: An interesting development...
 

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You would have felt comfortable if the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] had came instead of the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] At best you would have to check/call it down I think. I say you have closer to 4 outs than 5, making it a clear fold.

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I don't disagree that an 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would be uncomfortable, but I'm also down to 2 opponents. The chances of one of them holding 2 clubs isn't as great as when I'm against the typical 5-6 on the flop. I admit, it's still iffy.

Of course, what I was originally looking for is how to proceed when it is 2 bets to me when I do hit my 2-pair.

Re: An interesting development...
 

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Why did you stay past the flop?

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Because he is closing the action in position for a single bet with 5 outs that more often than not gives him the winning hand.

k

Re: An interesting development...
 

I think he is behing on the flop but I am not too sure about the turn, without the read on UTG. If UTG is the typical "I play any Ace, etc" he might be beat by a higher two pair. It is also possible he has 78.

I think you can raise here, and it UTG caps, check-call the river.

Re: An interesting development...
 

Think you have to raise the flop here. You're not too worried about BB and how UTG reacts to the raise gives a lot of information about his hand. He might be playing virtually anything figuring it's better than the crazy BB's hand. Raising the flop also gives you a better idea of where you're at vs. UTG on the turn if you miss. If he shows further aggression after your flop raise you can figure he has your pair of 7's beat.

Since you didn't raise the flop though, and since you hit one of your outs on the turn, I think you really have to 3-bet here. UTG could be raising anything decent as an isolation raise against the BB. He probably figures you for some kind of draw or weak hand since you just called the flop. If it gets capped, just call down.

Re: An interesting development...
 

Don't forget even if the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] happens to give someone a flush, which is unlikely, Hero still has 4 outs to a boat redraw on the river. I think 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is a pretty clean out here. At least 3/4 an out if not better.