FTOP hand
 

Home game, pretty loose-passive. Opponent is fairly new to hold'em and will call down with a lot of second-best hands, but generally raise with strong hands.

4 limpers + SB to me in the BB with red AA. I raise, all call.

Flop is 2c4c7c. I bet, folded to opponent who calls, rest fold.

Turn Qs. I bet, opponent calls.

River Jh. I bet opponent calls and turns over Kc6c for the flopped 2nd nut flush.

So I know there was nothing I really could've done differently, but thinking about FTOP, I was wondering which one of us made money and which one lost? I feel that I made money because I didn't ever have to call a raise, but I also lost money because I kept betting into a hand that I was dead to on the turn. Opponent lost money by not ever raising, but gained money because I kept betting into her with a far inferior hand.

So who made the bigger mistake, theoretically?

Re: FTOP hand
 

if he raised youd likely have folded given your description of him and how youd read his raise.

given that, he played it fine. except maybe raising the river.

you didnt make any money other than preflop. postflop, and especially on the turn, you lost a bunch. but that's also hindsight. there's no way you made money postflop on this hand

b

Re: FTOP hand
 

If you both knew each other's hands then obviously you made the bigger mistake. You put in 2.5 big bets while drawing dead. He cost himself 1 big bet by not raising either the turn or the river (assuming you would have called him down).

-- Homer

Re: FTOP hand
 

If memory serves FTOP says you lose if you played the hand differently than the way you would have played it if you knew the opponent's hand. If so, clearly YOU lost lots of money since you kept betting while drawing dead. Also, the opponent, KNOWING you are drawing dead, probably MADE money by just calling since it kept you in the pot betting. So you made the serious FTOP mistakes, not him.

FTOP does NOT say "you have to know about FTOP and have a clue", so it doesn't matter what this opponents thinking, or lack of it, was.

But FTOP is not a practical way to analyze hands since it does not address the very common situation where you do NOT know the opponent's hand. The way YOU played YOUR hand was correct given the situation (and therefore made money), and the way the opponent played HIS hand was incorrect given the situation.

- Louie