Butchered Boat
 

This is just awful..... Important stacks ME ($99), BB covers, button $75 or so.

I am dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG+1, I limp, 2 other limpers, BB comes along.

Flop: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] .... BB leads for $4, I make it $12, Button cold calls. BB folds.

Turn: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] check, check.

River: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I lead for $15, button raises to $35. I fold.

Let me have it!

Sly

Re: Butchered Boat
 

I would probobly check/call a reasonable bet on the river. Button cold-calling is scary. Maybe I'm just weak...

Re: Butchered Boat
 

Bet turn, full pot.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

i like check-calling the river.

once the bb calls, narrow his range to a 7 or a pocket pair. way ahead, way behind situation. check the turn. check-call the river. by checking, some hands worse than yours will take a stab at it, and quads will naturally bet as well, but it'll cost less than betting and facing a raise- you get value out of some worse hands, and you lose less when you're beat.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

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Bet turn, full pot.

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Why?

Re: Butchered Boat
 

Your 88 is probably good. If he had a 7 he would have bet the turn.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

well. 'cause hero does not want anything higher then 8 or h fall on river. If he has A and drawing, you have to price it. In addition you gain information. If he has 7, bigger pair he might re-raise figuring hero for the boat and we will fold.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

It sounds to me like more a case for just calling the flop bet, in that case.

If the opponent has AK, for instance, do we really want him to fold? Or would we rather he just keep betting incorrectly?

If the opponent has a higher pair, our raise only loses us money.

If the opponent has a lower pair, our rasie kills the action, thereby losing us money.

Sounds to me like calling the flop is the way to go here.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

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hero does not want anything higher then 8 or h fall on river.

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hero isn't too concerned about heart falling on the river. and cold-calling a flop raise to see a turn with high cards isn't likely, either.

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you have to price it. In addition you gain information. If he has 7, bigger pair he might re-raise figuring hero for the boat and we will fold.

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i don't think you get as much information as you think. he's not automatically coming over the top on the turn with a 7- he might want to wait and see if we hang outselves on the river. the way we played the flop (seems too fast for us to have quads), pocket 9's and above aren't folding to a turn pot bet. and if an underpair to the seven folds, thats no good.

checking turn keeps the pot under control. by betting, we build a pot out of position, don't get much information. and by checking the river with the intention of calling, we get worse hands to bet, and it costs us considerably less when we're beat.

Re: Butchered Boat
 

I dont think that you have made any big mistake at all in this hand. When the button cold-call a raise on this flop it is scary. Im usually done for the hand after that with 88 except if he is a total calling station.

On the river you have to ask yourself what hands strong enough to call a raise on the flop will call on the river and be worse than 88. I dont think its a good bet because of that.

You would be better to check and call a small bet and fold to a big bet IMO.