Re: $22: missed push?
 

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would you push 72 here? because its not much different.

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67s is MUCH, MUCH different than 72o. I have legitimate suckout chances if I run into a hand.

I pass on pushing in some spots when others say that pushing is correct. But I'm more likely to push in spots like this, where I'm trying to seperate myself from the pack. If I fold here, I'm not desperate by any means, but after taking the blinds again, I would be ~5 BB. I have very good FE if I push here, regardless of my table image, due to the stack sizes.

27o vs. AKo: 32-68
67s vs. AKo: 42-58

My winning chances are 10 real percentage points higher with 67s than with 27o. Winning 42% of the time is actually 31% more than winning 32% of the time. A very significant difference.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

They do need a very good hand to call you, but you can't assume they know that. There are plenty of monkeys at the $22s that will call you w/ way lesser hands than you would possibly imagine.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

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They do need a very good hand to call you, but you can't assume they know that. There are plenty of monkeys at the $22s that will call you w/ way lesser hands than you would possibly imagine.

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Yes, you are correct.

I guess this relates to a concept that I have heard others refer to in passing, but has not been talked about much.

I base my pushes not only on ICM, but also on, for lack of a better word, larger game factors. You begin to recognize what 'type' of game will take place based upon the stack sizes of all the remaining players. This is not going to be a game where folding ITM will happen. A bunch of us are somewhat comfortable, yet somewhat short in chips. Soon, the blinds will be even higher and many of us are about to become shortstacks.

In spots like this, the aggressive player will usually prevail. I'm probably not explaining this concept well, but I think that a strength of mine is recognizing what style of play (when faced with close decisions) is called for based upon the chipstacks and blinds. This is a game that I will have to be aggressive and gamble a bit.

I hope this makes sense, but it probably just sounds like a bunch of mush. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'm writing this, not to sound like some kind of expert, just to see if anyone else has thought about this concept.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

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Sorry, but i really really disagree. Folding is fine here unless SB and BB are very tight. Why do you want to push 7 high from the button when you have 9xbb behind? Especially if you pushed the last 2/3 hands..

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Cuz there's only two players left to act and I have significant FE. The blinds are significant, and if called by a couple of overs, I have a great suckout hand. I'm ~58-42 vs non-paired overs such as AK if they happen to pick up a hand. I'd like to begin to seperate myself from the field with everyone bunched together.

Well, I guess I don't feel bad about folding... maybe I should feel bad about considering pushing in the first place? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] I gotta believe that at least some good players would push here though. I seems like a fairly close decision to me for the reasons that I have given.

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In tournament play, Sklansky advocates not taking big risks in close situations (slightly +EV) and capiatalizing on highly +EV situations (or something to that effect). Since this appears to be close, it sounds like you made the correct play by folding.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

I think you can argue either way here (analysis Harrington style here, or at least I'm trying):
For pushing: Versatile hand (holds up well against two overs), only two players behind you, both of whom you would hurt if you beat them, you're on the bubble so the players are tightening up, your M is low
For folding: You'll still have fold equity on later hands if you fold, you've already pushed a few times recently opening up the range of calling hands, your playing at $22 where there will likely be looser calling standards, when you are called you will virtually always be an underdog.
This could go either way (I would guess whichever way you decide you're not gaining/losing a whole lot).

My $.02

Re: $22: missed push?
 

If you had pushed 1 or none out of the last 3 hands, I think you would have to push here. Given that you've pushed 2 out of the last 3 hands, I think it's close enough that pushing and folding are both reasonable options.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

I agree with everything you say. There are meta-game implications on top of ICM. If you're pushing too much, your opponents will widen their calling ranges.

You're already the most aggressive player, you pushed 2 out of the last 3 hands, you don't need to push another one. If you want to get fancy, you could limp and let their trapping paranoia give you another easy pot (bet any flop after it's checked to you). I'm not a big fan of fancy plays at the low levels though, so I think this is a pretty straightforward fold.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

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I'm not a big fan of fancy plays at the low levels though

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I agree with you here completely.

I'm a bit surprised with the number of 'easy fold' responses. (I realize that yours was not one of them.) If not for table image, I push here 100% of the time with the same stack size / blinds. Taking table image into account, I suppose it's a close fold, but I hated doing it.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

With a better image I might push as well, but I still think it's borderline. If the table hasn't been too push-crazy, I'm folding and waiting for a better spot.

Re: $22: missed push?
 

Does anyone do the ICM calcs around here anymore, or was that just a fad?

I don't usually push here, but would if the table felt tight. I could be wrong though. I sorta feel lately like I'm slipping into a more Lorinda-like high ITM/similar ROI game.