Interesting Aces Hand
 

I'm playing at Bay 101 in an 8/16 game. There is a true maniac on my immediate left, other players are pretty loose, but not dumb, and all are trying to get the maniac's money.

I open raise with two black Aces from early position.
The maniac calls (he's got a little bit of respect for me, which is the only thing that kept him from making it 3 bets with anything).
2 others call, as does the big blind.

Five of us see a flop of
JcTcTh (note the two clubs)

The big blind bets.

I'm next. What now?

I'll say what I did in another post.

-MD

What I Did
 

I folded. Set me straight, if you will, but I was just too afraid of being trapped for multiple bets with only two outs. Anybody could have a ten, flush and particularly straight draws were likely, I figured that even if I was best for the time being, I had too many ways to lose.

-MD

(pardon that very long run-on sentence)

Re: What I Did
 

Good discipline I say! Congrats, pro move all the way! 8)

You probably are cooked and unless 2 more clubs, an ace, two more aces, or KQ hit the board you are in trouble, and even if some of those do you are probably in trouble (A-9 with a ten certainly popular holdings...) that does give you a few more 1/2 outs maybe, so perhaps seeing the turn might have been OK, but you had bad position, so overall I like the move a lot.
[sorry for run on sentence [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]]

-t

Re: Interesting Aces Hand
 

You're mildly insane. Have you been reading too many of those posts where some guy asks if he should make it four bets on the river with the second nuts, and some wise guy tells him to fold on the flop?

Unless you are sure you're up against a ten, the fold is terrible. Even if you're up against KQ,78,and a flush draw, you're in decent shape, I think, and in reality, it's probably better than that. It would take more than a bet to convince me I was up against a ten.

I would raise and not think twice about it (the pot is not big enough to justify waiting until the turn, I think, I'll try to knock out the gutshots now).

Re: What I Did
 

I am getting you a christmas present - what size skirt do you wear?

In all seriousness - this is very weak tight. You have an overpair, back door nut str8 and flush draws...and a couple of loonies in the pot.

I am raising here almost all of the time...on occasion I may call and wait for an innocuous turn card to raise the bettor and knock out the ones behind.

With the draws there this guy could be betting any of the draws, a good J, or even a steal attempt if he knows you r weak tight...

No matter the results - this has to ba a bad fold. It is almost like these guys who say they mucked aces preflop because they figured everyone else had the other two between them......bad bad bad...

Re: What I Did
 

Horrible fold. Raise 80% of time smoothcall 20% (so you drive people out with turn raise. )

Re: What I Did
 

This is a bad fold unless the bettor is extremely passive.

-Diplomat

Re: What I Did
 

This is an easy raise.

If you are that afraid of the BB having a ten, see how he reacts to your raise. If he 3 bets, then consider folding if you think his play is straightforward enough that he'd three-bet you only with a ten, or by this point, call the three bet and then fold if the turn doesn't bring an ace, king, queen, or club. Likewise, if he calls, then go ahead and check behind on the turn and then call a river bet so as to minimize your losses if he does have a ten. However, a fold here is just a bad, bad idea. There's so many hands he can be betting with this flop that don't include a ten.

Re: What I Did
 

With the exception of one inexplicable response below, you might find a common thread here, so to speak.

Your fold is wrong. It is bad. It is wrong and bad.

The maniac could have 7/2. Forget him. Consider his hand random, and hope that he's not holding a ten. If he's lucky enough to have a draw, are you figuring you don't want to play an overpair against a gutshot from the maniac, and what looks like a jack, open-ender, KK, or QQ from the bettor?

If he's got a ten, you'll probably lose.

If you fold, you'll definitely lose.

If you raise, you'll be able to hold your head up and say "At least I am not the weak-tightest player on the face of the Earth."

Weakest-tight? I dunno.

Re: Interesting Aces Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise and not think twice about it (the pot is not big enough to justify waiting until the turn, I think, I'll try to knock out the gutshots now).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The bet is excellent for you (if he doesn't have trips, obviously) because he's helping you clear out the field by raising. If he had flopped trips he'd likely checkraise with the PFR on his immediate left. I'd raise all the time in this situation.