My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

So I ran into a situation tonight that I often find myself in...

Party 1/2

Read on CO is that he is an unimaginative and straight forward player.

Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Hero Raises, all fold to CO who calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop (8 SB): 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, Hero Bets, CO raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero ???

Ok, so at this point I figure that I am up against at least two pair or possibly a set. I do not think that he is raising with Top Pair or an OESD.

What is my line? Am I folding here? Calling the raise and check/folding an unimproved turn? Check/calling all the way to the river in hopes that I hit a Queen or the board pairs in such a way that it counterfeits two pair?

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

you dont think he would play A8s, or 99 like this?

i dont like folding at all, is he fairly tight, whats his likely cold-calling range, is he so unamaginatve that he would never raise T9s here?

i guess you have a very specific read, but i dont think your behind here that often, i probly cap or bet out or c/r turn

edit: nevermind i cant cap, i 3 bet

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I ran into a situation tonight that I often find myself in...

Party 1/2

Read on CO is that he is an unimaginative and straight forward player.

Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop:
Hero Raises, all fold to CO who calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls

Flop (8 SB): 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks, Hero Bets, CO raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero ???

Ok, so at this point I figure that I am up against at least two pair or possibly a set. I do not think that he is raising with Top Pair or an OESD.

What is my line? Am I folding here? Calling the raise and check/folding an unimproved turn? Check/calling all the way to the river in hopes that I hit a Queen or the board pairs in such a way that it counterfeits two pair?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ppl absolutely raise this with OESD's and Top pair. You 3-bet, and bet the turn. If he caps your 3-bet, figure it out on the turn. But, you shouldn't just be check/folding if he caps the flop. You have a monster hand on this board.

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

Are you crazy? If the CO is such a straightforward player, then what is he cold-calling with here that has you beat? 3-bet this flop.

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

If you are absolutely, positively certain that CO would not raise this without at least 2 pair, you call the raise & fold the turn unimproved; you're getting 11:1 in immediate odds, and have 5 outs vs. 2 pair. You only have 2 outs vs. a set, but if you hit your own 2-outer you are probably going to make up a lot of bets from him on the expensive streets.

However, I don't see how you can be that certain that he would never raise without at least 2 pair. A straightforward, unimaginitive player would easily take this line with 99-JJ as well, figuring that this is a very good flop for them (but they didn't want to 3-bet preflop in case the ace showed up on the flop). He might even decide to raise with 66-33 if you've been raising preflop a lot & betting the flop every time afterwards.

I just can't see a way to fold this hand once it's heads up unless you actually see his hole cards.

Re: Overpair/Monster Pairs in general
 

Hello Everyone - I am a rookie to poker and to this forum, so please excuse me if I am not up on the lingo and abbreviations or if I am not giving you enough info. to answer this question. First, I am making my way through several poker books, most notably Miller, Sklansky and Malmuth' "Winning at Low-Limit"

One message that I have taken to heart is to play aggressively with "Monster Pairs" AA/KK. I am playing 2/5 at a nearby casino (Wendover, Nevada)

I am wondering if I am playing TOO aggressively. In my last 2 nights out I have been dealt AA once and KK three times. I have been betting, and re-raising pre-flop in order to sweeten the pot. However, I have not improved post flop on any of the hands. I stayed in on the turn and the river and still no improvement - no sets, not second pair etc. (I also bet and raised on the turn and river). I only won one of the pots (A/A) and it wasn't much of a pot ($25 or so).

So may question is - how big of a fool am I? Should I have folded after the flop? Can anyone tell me what percentage of monster pairs can win unimproved all the way to the river?

I realize that some of you may want to know if the games were loose or tight, but I don't have the knowledge to answer that, at this point.

Thanks! - Ryan

Results
 

CO has pocket 7's and rides his set to victory with me calling all the way.

Thanks for the input guys. I could not find it in myself to lay this one down for exactly the reasons you all stated (even though I was "sure" he had two pair or a set). My experience is that calling down here is profitable, however it seems that over the past two weeks every time I am in this situation I am just behind (this could possibly be my mind selectively remembering the beats and forgetting the wins).

Thanks again.

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, so at this point I figure that I am up against at least two pair or possibly a set. I do not think that he is raising with Top Pair or an OESD.

What is my line? Am I folding here? Calling the raise and check/folding an unimproved turn? Check/calling all the way to the river in hopes that I hit a Queen or the board pairs in such a way that it counterfeits two pair?

[/ QUOTE ]

He could be raising with top pair to try to buy outs by getting over cards to fold but I'm not sure what he would have to go with an 8 that he would call a preflp raise with other then suited 7/8.

Re: My Overpair vs Their Flopped Two Pair (or Set)
 

In my experience. A decent player is going to raise you with almost any 8, putting you on an overcard autobet until proven otherwise. 3bet, lead turn.

JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]