Two Plus Two Older Archives

Two Plus Two Older Archives (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/index.php)

- Mid- and High-Stakes Hold'em (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - AJs (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=9274)

I am UTG in my usual extremely loose 10-20 game and raise with AdJd. I had been at the table for about 90 minutes and this was the first hand that I had paid to see the flop except for the occasional free play in the big blind.

6 way action including both blinds...$120 pot.

Flop: 2d3d5c

I bet. 5 guys call before the bb raises. I 3 bet it.

3 guys now fold. The sb (a very loose player) coldcalls and the bb calls. $240 pot.

Turn: 4s

The sb bets. BB calls. I raise. Sb makes it $60 to go. bb folds. I call. $380 pot.

River: 3s

sb bets. I call.

Any comments?

i would just call the turn and call the river, i dont really want sb to 3-bet the turn.

he's loose, but is he clueless? it is obvious you have at least one ace.

would he 3-bet the turn with an ace? would he try to make you lay down the ignorant end of the straight on a bluff?

I don't like your raise on the turn, and your 3 bet on the flop is marginal. It depends on your read of SB, and if you think you could drive out a 5-6/6-7.

First of all A-Js is not a lucky hand. Many of my sob stories are the result of playing this piece of cheese. It's definitely over-rated in the Sklansky hand rankings. I would say it's a group 9 hand in live play. Since you chose to put yourself in this pickle I think you played the hand very well on all streets.

I think you are probably beat but I like the way you played the hand. I don't think I would have played any different on any of the streets. Perhaps I would have just called the turn because one of your opponents could have a six but you still have the flush draw so a raise is not bad.

Was this a live game? Are you back playing at the Holiday Inn? It has been very good lately... better than normal if you can imagine.

I've read the other threads so I'll comment on them. I think your three bet on the flop is a very good play. I am assuming you would have checked the turn if the straight didn't hit. Nf criticized your turn raise and I think he makes a good point that the sb would know there is a good chance that have an ace so he likely would not bet out unless he has a 6. As far as raising with AJs, I don't have a problem with that. This isn't a premium hand and you know that so if you miss the flop you are able to get away from it without losing much. Plus you hadn't played a hand in a long ime so you would think your raise would garner more respect... guess it didn't this time with all those callers.

What is required for something to become a "lucky hand"?

AJs should be a Group 9 hand? I'd like to see your revised rankings. Are you still keeping the monster 74s in Group 8?

"Nf criticized your turn raise and I think he makes a good point that the sb would know there is a good chance that you have an ace so he likely would not bet out unless he has a 6."

I don't understand this point. Firstly, I 3 bet the flop. That should tell the sb that it is unlikely that I have an Ace (unless it's AA). It is more likely that I have JJ,QQ,KK and the like i.e. the normal 3 betting hands on this type of flop. So, when the 4 comes down, anyone with an Ace and therefore a bicycle would be taking a chance by checking to me because I simply may not bet my overpair.

But even if the sb knew or suspected that I have an Ace, he surely must know that I don't have a 6 (while I can't be sure that he doesn't have a 6). So, if the sb had an Ace, he should bet and then 3 bet me if given the chance.

Now, I raised thinking that there is a good chance that the sb also only has an Ace (after all he coldcalled 2 bets on the flop) and I have a flush freeroll. Plus, there is one other player in there (the bb) whose money could be useful if I were to go on to hit the flush.

Anyway, the result was no good: the sb won with K6 offsuit. He called 3 bets on the flop ($20 cold) with that hand. The game was at the Holiday Inn and if I were to tell you who it was, you would not at all be surprised.

In any event, I think that the turn raise is debatable as are the flop 3 bet and perhaps, even the preflop raise.

Perhaps others will comment on those aspects.

...and yes, the HI games have somehow become even easier to beat than they were when I last played there regularly which was in the first 7 months of 2000...I didn't think that was possible.

see my post below Clinteroo's.

While I acknowledge that the turn raise is questionable, I don't think the uncertainty flows from what you are saying.

I wonder if we can flesh out the flop 3 bet. What are the pros and cons?