Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

Well, there was a long thread on this, so I'm going to post a few polls about it just to see the general tenor of the forum.


P.S. The other players are added in because I had put a list of 10 other players I'd take before brady and there was some disagrement.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

The Tomlinson or Moss opr Brady questions don't even make sense. It depends on who I get for a QB or the other positions if I don't tkae that player.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

If someone offered a trade of Manning for Brady, we'd have to take it. But we'd probably regret it come playoff time. Also, Foxboro is inhospitable to Peyton. So maybe not.

The others are all easily 'Brady' votes.

NT

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

The only one that seems nuts right now is Tomlinson v. Brady. Brady should be way in front.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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The Tomlinson or Moss opr Brady questions don't even make sense. It depends on who I get for a QB or the other positions if I don't tkae that player.

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They were in reference to a post I made before mentioning that i'd take them before Brady, so yes, somewhat ancillary.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

Hey Massholes, can it be spelled both Foxboro and Foxborough?

Thanks, I've been torn over this recently.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

Seems a bit Brady-leaning thus far. Should the Pats lose in Pittsburg, I may repost part of this poll.

Interesting sidenote; where is Roethlisberger in all this talk; all he's ever done is win in the NFL, which is all that matters, right? If he wins the SB,(which I happen to think he will), is HE now the best QB in the NFL?

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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Hey Massholes, can it be spelled both Foxboro and Foxborough?

Thanks, I've been torn over this recently.

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Yes it is very common. I lived in Marlborough, which was also spelled Marlboro.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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Interesting sidenote; where is Roethlisberger in all this talk; all he's ever done is win in the NFL, which is all that matters, right? If he wins the SB,(which I happen to think he will), is HE now the best QB in the NFL?

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No, he isnt.

All these morons don't understand that its a team game and that no quarterback other than maybe Vick could ever be responsible for more than like 10% of teams performance.

People who would seriously take Brady over Manning are either

A) Patriot fans
B) Retarded

The whole "Brady wins games" argument is one of the stupidest things in the world. The patriots defense wins games, Brady doens't win games.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

brady = cool under pressure, makes plays when they count

manning = head shaker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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Interesting sidenote; where is Roethlisberger in all this talk; all he's ever done is win in the NFL, which is all that matters, right? If he wins the SB,(which I happen to think he will), is HE now the best QB in the NFL?

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No, he isnt.

All these morons don't understand that its a team game and that no quarterback other than maybe Vick could ever be responsible for more than like 10% of teams performance.

People who would seriously take Brady over Manning are either

A) Patriot fans
B) Retarded

The whole "Brady wins games" argument is one of the stupidest things in the world. The patriots defense wins games, Brady doens't win games.

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Agrred with almost all of what you say, but MAN, I just cant get on the Vick bandwagon just yet. They beat Philly, and I may to to the station tho.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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brady = cool under pressure, makes plays when they count

manning = head shaker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Did the plays not count in 2002, when they didn't even MAKE the playoffs with a similarly talented team to 2003?(Maybe moreso, as they jettisoned Malloy beginning of last year, right?)

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

I agree that the Pat's D is a great influence in the Pat's success, more so than any single player. But the Pat's offense, conducted largely in part by Tom Brady won those two SuperBowls with their final drives, capped off by Adam Vinatieri field goals. The whole teams was responsible for those drives, and Brady helped out. i would say "Brady helps" win games. But I agree he doesn't win them by himself.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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All these morons don't understand that its a team game and that no quarterback other than maybe Vick could ever be responsible for more than like 10% of teams performance.

People who would seriously take Brady over Manning are either

A) Patriot fans
B) Retarded

The whole "Brady wins games" argument is one of the stupidest things in the world. The patriots defense wins games, Brady doens't win games.

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The problem with this arguement is that all QBs aren't the same but with varying degrees of ability. They're all different. Brady may win Superbowls with his own team, but not the Colts and vice versa. Just because you win with one team doesn't mean you win with another, EVEN IF IT'S A BETTER TEAM! The chemistry might not be there. The offensive schemes might not fit him. The coaches might not be right for him. There are a million things. Just saying he's better so he'd win with that team doesn't work.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
brady = cool under pressure, makes plays when they count

manning = head shaker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Did the plays not count in 2002, when they didn't even MAKE the playoffs with a similarly talented team to 2003?(Maybe moreso, as they jettisoned Malloy beginning of last year, right?)

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i don't get it. all i know is when brady is in a high pressure playoff game win or go home situation, he wins! the whole team wins, like meatball said.

but seriously, brady is a big part, those superbowl drives.. oh baby, there's a reason he has 2 superbowl mvp's.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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brady = cool under pressure, makes plays when they count

manning = head shaker [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Did the plays not count in 2002, when they didn't even MAKE the playoffs with a similarly talented team to 2003?(Maybe moreso, as they jettisoned Malloy beginning of last year, right?)

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i don't get it. all i know is when brady is in a high pressure playoff game win or go home situation, he wins! the whole team wins, like meatball said.

but seriously, brady is a big part, those superbowl drives.. oh baby, there's a reason he has 2 superbowl mvp's.

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Yes, because no one else sttod out in either, and they don;t give kickers the MVP.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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MVPs don't throw interceptions in the red zone in the 4th quarter leading 21-16.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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MVPs don't throw interceptions in the red zone in the 4th quarter leading 21-16.

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I'd be willing to bet Montana did this more than once.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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That drive should never have happened. Even madden said with :48 seconds left the Pats should play for OT.....

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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People who would seriously take Brady over Manning are either

A) Patriot fans
B) Retarded


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This part made me laugh. Nice.

But are they mutually exclusive?

Now THAT was rough of me, but hey, a little friendly ribbing.

The Pats win more games with Manning. The Colts win fewer games with Brady without defensive improvement.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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MVPs don't throw interceptions in the red zone in the 4th quarter leading 21-16.

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I'd be willing to bet Montana did this more than once.

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In a Super Bowl? I don't recall many Montana games, so I don't know.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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That drive should never have happened. Even madden said with :48 seconds left the Pats should play for OT.....

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dumbest comment ever

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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MVPs don't throw interceptions in the red zone in the 4th quarter leading 21-16.

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but against the rams!! the rams!!

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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i am saying he stood out. esp. against the rams. that drive... oh baby.

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That drive should never have happened. Even madden said with :48 seconds left the Pats should play for OT.....

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And that's when I lost all respect for Madden. How is that not the dumbest thing ever said by an announcer? If you can't trust your offense enough to given you one minute of play without turning the ball over, you're basically admitting you're the worst coach in history and have done nothing to prepare your team.

The Rams offense was a machine that year and if they won the toss there was a very good chance of a field goal. And if NE wins the toss, they have to give the ball to that offense they didn't trust at the end of the regulation. Or was the plan going to be pray for a defensive touchdown?

Sitting on it makes ZERO sense. All it does it send the message that you feel you're not good enough.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

"All these morons don't understand that its a team game and that no quarterback other than maybe Vick could ever be responsible for more than like 10% of teams performance."

And you are the idiot who doesn't realize that manning's contract cripples his team. You also dont realize that manning's inflexibility was what cost them the game last week- his inablity to cope with a superior defense has broken that team time and again.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

"The Pats win more games with Manning"

This is close to the dumbest thing in this thread. Do you not remember how the patriots set a RECORD for the most consecutive wins EVER!!! How on earth can you contend that they would have won More games with Manning? I just don't get it.
You think they would have won three SB's in a row too?

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

The Patriots win because of their insane defense and offensive line. Brady's a great QB, but not nearly the best. He doesn't need to be the best with that supporting cast though. Put Manning (the best) in that pocket with a dominating defense to get him the ball back and they don't lose a game.

Regards,
Steve

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

I don't really see how it would be possible for the Patriots to "win more" with Manning over Brady.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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I don't really see how it would be possible for the Patriots to "win more" with Manning over Brady.

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well, let's see, the patriots played 16 games, and won 14...

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

Didn't Trent Dilfer win 19 straight starts and a super bowl. How important is a QB as long as he doesn't turn the ball over?

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

TO be fair, if Egderin James doesn't fumble twice in the Red Zone in week 1 the Pats never even see that record.

Cody

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

"Put Manning (the best) in that pocket with a dominating defense to get him the ball back and they don't lose a game."

Brady and the pats did this for a hell of a span.

As i have state before, i have two problems with Manning.
1. Hes inflexible. If you look at the game film from last week the Colts had no problems moving the ball when they were in the two min drill. Which they did twice- once at the end of the first half, and once at the end of the game. Both times they had shots at touchdowns (though the second time it was irrelevent at that point). But the rest of the game Manning surveryed the defense, called his audibles, did his production, and then the Patriots fell into their real D, so Manning was basically guessing the whole game. He let the pats dictate the flow when he was on the field. He failed to make the adjustments nessecary to win the game, so they lost.
2. He costs 80 mill. He has crippled his team in terms of the salary cap. Dungy is one of the better defensive coaches in the nfl, but they struggle year in and out because the spend 80% of their dough on offense.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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2. He costs 80 mill. He has crippled his team in terms of the salary cap. Dungy is one of the better defensive coaches in the nfl, but they struggle year in and out because the spend 80% of their dough on offense.

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This is the worst argument ever. He costs so much precisely because he is the best. Basically with this argument you are saying you would rather have Brady because you don't have to pay him that much because he isnt very good. How does that make him a better QB than Manning?

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

So you fail to address my main point and then....

You may see it as a poor point- but i was asked who would i rather have? in today's nfl you have to be cap conscious, and i never pay a player as much as manning makes.
secondly, he makes so much because his stats are so gaudy- if you want to make the argument that stats are the most important thing, then you go right ahead. But i will take super bowl victories any day. Thats what i want as a fan, that's what i would want as an owner (well actually big merchandising deals, and full stadiums as an owner).
I think Manning is way overpaid precisely because people put to much of an emphasis on stats, and i think there are at least three Qb's who could put up very similar numbers on that team.
Culpepper, Manning, Mcnabb. Hell, i think that Hassleback could put up some tremendous numbers if they ever gave him recievers who could hold on to the ball. Put him on the Packers this year and i think they do better than they did with Farve (much as i love the guy).

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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Culpepper, Manning, Mcnabb. Hell, i think that Hassleback could put up some tremendous numbers if they ever gave him recievers who could hold on to the ball. Put him on the Packers this year and i think they do better than they did with Farve (much as i love the guy).

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Put any of those guys on the Patriots and they win just as many games as Brady has.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

Actually, that is the whole Belichek design under the salary cap rule of assigning each position a specific value and not over paying for any position. That is why Lawyer Milloy, the best safety in the league. was cut. Because he demanded too much money (which he probably deserved, I dunno). Do you get it now? Why Belichek wouldn't overpay for every position int he Colt's offense?

PS. how much control does Belichek have over personenel decisions? I am grossly uninformed in this department?

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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That drive should never have happened. Even madden said with :48 seconds left the Pats should play for OT.....

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And it sure is a good thing John Madden doesn't coach the Patriots.

Seriously, Why would you take a knee to get a situation where you might never see the ball again when you already have the ball with a chance for a game winning drive.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

yeah- but Mcnabb, Culpepper, And Manning have all been in big games and put up goose eggs. All three multiple times. When Brady does that maybe i will consider you statements about them being good enough to lead my team when i have the choice.

Re: Some NFL polls on Brady, etc.
 

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yeah- but Mcnabb, Culpepper, And Manning have all been in big games and put up goose eggs. All three multiple times. When Brady does that maybe i will consider you statements about them being good enough to lead my team when i have the choice.


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Your problem is that you equate the teams performance with that of the quarterback.

Take Culpepper for example. The biggest game he was in was the 2000 NFC championship. The Vikings were down 14-0 before Culpepper ever touched the ball, was that Culpepper's fault?