Going pro Article
 

About 5 or 6 months ago I posted a thread regarding David Sklansky's forward in which he stated that it is easy to make 50k playing 3-6 holdem on the internet.
I challenged that it was not easy, and I met with a very angry mob response, and a very short post from Mr Sklansky re-stating how easy it is.
There was a poster who posted his winning record playing 6 tables for 100k hands. It took him 4 months to reach that amount of hands, and I believe he had made 18k. It was very impressive, but it didnt change my attitude.
I realize that there are some people who are currently playing crazy amounts of tables and making money. That being said I believe they are the exception rather than the rule.
Ed Miller is possibly the best poker author out there right now. besides the math, he seems to have a natural
understanding of poker strategy and he communicates his thoughts very clearly. it's just that I disagree with how to go about making money on the internet.

After playing online for several months now, I think I can safely say that for example; you should not multi-table more than 2-3 games of 6 maxx, any level. you need to be
very aware of the players tendencies in this game. I know I'll hear from someone who is multi-tabling 24 games of 6maxx 5-10 and making six figures a month or some crazy figure, but 6maxx demands quick decisions, higher aggression, and features maniacs in about 30% of the games you'll play.It's simply too demanding to multi-table more than 3 successfully imo.
To make 4k a month at 3-6, you need to play roughly 44k hands, and make at least 1 1/2bb/100. To do this, you need to play every day 5 hours a day or 5 days a week 8 hours a day 4-tabling.
Can you sustain this pace? if so, then as David said, 50k is no problem.I dont think it's realistic.
A realistic pace would be to play slightly above 8 hours worth of hands at B&M.
If you play 400-500 hands a day online ,you are way ahead
of B&M games, and you can have a life. And I would keep that at 5 days a week.
Realistic earnings= 3-6 holdem 1200-1400 monthly.
This I believe is reality,.
Also if you want to watch a great 6maxx player, go to Ladbrokes and watch 22year old, "The Salmon", and other play 200-400 6maxx. very entertaining andinstructive.

If you want to get a realistic idea of what to expect from another source, then go to King Yao's Blog,(author of Weighing the Odds in Holdem) where he is currently developing a book on 6maxx internet play and is playing 50k hands of 6maxx at 10-20 15-30 levels and reporting back.
good luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

I think if you're serious about long term profits, you have to balance B&M and online play. Good Luck knowing your online opponents' tendancies.( Can't hit what you can't see) Depends on the person and their stenghths; if you're psychic,go for it.But if you want to prove a point, I'll play anyone and win 50% of the pots online.Just fund the match & you'll be refunded. S.Spencersaspencer@adelphia.net

Re: Going pro Article
 

1400-1500 USD per month for that many hours. Oh Boy! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] If that's what you expect then I'd find a more lucrative hobby/job.

Re: Going pro Article
 

for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

Re: Going pro Article
 

where can i find this article?

Re: Going pro Article
 

PokerHorse wrote: [ QUOTE ]
Realistic earnings= 3-6 holdem 1200-1400 monthly.
This I believe is reality,.


[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you forgetting rakeback and bonuses. You can easily make that much on rakeback and bonuses alone.

(I'm a newbie, my apologies it rakeback is a taboo topic)

Re: Going pro Article
 

I play at party and cant get rakeback, but I wouldnt put it into the equation as those things change.

Re: Going pro Article
 

king yaos is " weighingtheodds.blogspot.com

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play at party and cant get rakeback, but I wouldnt put it into the equation as those things change.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your original post and the actual difficulties of multitabling for a livable income.

But I think it's okay to include bonuses and rakebacks into the equation. Sure those things can change, but so can the whole dang internet poker thing! It could all be over in a few years, who is to say. In the meantime, take advantage of every opportunity, I say.

-ptmusic

Re: Going pro Article
 

Lets make a coservative estimate if you don't mind playing full handed.
full handed 5/10 with say 0.7 BB per hour + a 25% rakeback should give you about 10 dollars per hour.
the above earn is not unrealistic for 6 tables.
For 75 hours month that gives you an expectation of 4500 USD.
If your prone to bouts of tiredness or tilt then fudge it down by as much as 30% and you still get an earn of over 3000 per month.

Its not trivial and you do need to be able to walk away from a 2000 USD losing streak as though nothing has happened.

To multitable 'effectively' means training your responses, not just studying. Also you need decent screenspace.

I think your right many people don't achieve these earnings but they are entirely feasible, and it requires dedication and drive rather than latent skill.

Re: Going pro Article
 

i totally agree that the potential to play so many hands is very compelling.
i just think that 5-10 would be the minimum size to play inorder to make 50k a year or more.
playing 6 tables for 3 hours a day seems tough to me, for for others it may be no big deal.
All types of theoretical formulas can be conceived to show profit potential.
my personal suggestion to players would be to start at the lower limits(before leaving your day job)and build your bankroll so you can play the 10-20, 15-30 online games.
The internet really affords the opportunity for someone to
play equal amounts to a B&M player without leaving your job.
There is no reason a person couldnt play for 6 months online before leaving their job, to determine if they can beat the games, and more,to see if they really enjoy this style of gaming. You can multi table three tables of 3-6 or 5-10 for 2 hours a day and be playing more hands than a full time B&M pro, so why not start safely??
good luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]

playing 6 tables for 3 hours a day seems tough to me, for for others it may be no big deal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. What applies to you does not apply to everyone else. YOU may not be able to play more than 3 tables of 6-max, but there are many 8-tabling it. YOU may not be making 50k a year from 3/6, but there are MANY making MORE.

Here's the math, assuming a 2bb/100 win rate (very realistic) and only 4 tables:
60 hands per hour 1-tabling
60*4 = 240 hands per hour 4-tabling
2bb/100 = 4.8bb/hour
4.8*6/hour = $28.80 per hour

Play 2000 hours a week (40 hours/week for 50 weeks) and that's a $57,600 income. Note that this is "only" 4-tabling and BEFORE rakeback and bonuses.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I can safely say that for example; you should not multi-table more than 2-3 games of 6 maxx

[/ QUOTE ]

You’re kidding, right?

It is easy and simple to make $50k a year playing $3-6.

Play 4 tables of $3-6, playing 6 hours per day 5 days per week, making 1.5BB/hr x 48 weeks a year, so 4x6x6x5x1.5x48 = $51.8k/year

30/hrs a week with a month’s vacation tossed in assuming only a 1.5BB win rate is certainly do-able for a winning player.

Just because you can’t play 3 tables shorthanded doesn’t mean other can’t. There are quite a few posters here who can play 6, 8 or even 12 tables effectively.

You’d be much better off trying to learn from those who can do it, rather than adamantly deny reality.

Re: Going pro Article
 

I remember that thread. And I also remember Ed telling you that he never claimed it was "easy" but that it was "no big deal."

You have a problem with the semantics, brotha.

Re: Going pro Article
 

i know the math... i think 6 hours a day isnt realistic multi-tabling 4 tables. thats all. i know there are some who are doing it, and of course everyone who is is making money right?

Re: Going pro Article
 

the text says its no big deal and david said it was easy.
if you can play 5-8 hours a day 4-tables then, you are right, its no big deal. I think its very hard to maintain that type of pace, and also very un-neccesary.

Re: where are they????
 

Okay, dont believe me ,go to wherever you play online, look at the 3-6 games or 5-10 games. go down the lists and make notes of the players and see how many players are playing over 3 tables.
I play at Party where something like 30k players are playing everyday. is that a good enough sample size.
on a typical day i have found 4 or 5 players playing 3 tables, and as many as 12-15 playing 2 tables. i guess all those hotshots who are playing 6-8 tables all play somewhere else. Oh, but wait, ... when I read the posts they refer to party poker constantly. i guess they know when i am coming to the sight, which is at very different times of day, but they know, and they waIT TILL IM GONE AND THEN PLAY.. Come-on,..... very very very few are doing it and making money, wherever they are.

Re: where are they????
 

[ QUOTE ]
i guess all those hotshots who are playing 6-8 tables all play somewhere else. Oh, but wait, ... when I read the posts they refer to party poker constantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the fact that each Party skin only allows a player to open up to four tables might have something to do with the fact that you can never find anyone playing more than that. Obviously anyone playing 6-8 tables is using more than one screen name at a time.

I often play four full tables for six hours in one day. My goal is 30 hours a week, and I prefer to meet this by playing a little every day. A typical week would be 3 days for 6 hours and 4 days for 3 hours. If I have to take days off, I add more 6 hour days to make up for it.

My 6 hour days consist of 3 hours of play, about 3 hours of break time (usually be making and eating dinner, and watching a movie), followed by another 3 hours of play. This takes no more time than the typical commuting to and from work for an 8 hour shift.

Re: where are they????
 

do you feel the pace is no problem, and that you could play this way for a few years, or do you see it as temporary until you can move up?
Also how long have you been playing?

Re: Going pro Article
 

What do you mean it's not realistic? There are players here who play 40hrs a week - 52weeks a year.

Of course you can't make 50k+ working 3hrs a day / 15hrs a week. I'm sorry to be rude but this is so childish to expect. Poker is a job. It's not a vacation. There are plenty of people who play 8hrs a day. If you want to play 1/3 the hours you need to play 3x the stakes, it's that simple. Good luck in the 10/20.


P.S. If your point is you can't play your A+ game for 8hrs a day you're right. But you can certainly play your B+ game.

Re: where are they????
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you feel the pace is no problem, and that you could play this way for a few years, or do you see it as temporary until you can move up?
Also how long have you been playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I started playing Dec 2003. It took me about two months to move out of the micro-limits and start playing multiple tables (3 until August 2004, 4 after that). I averaged 20 hours a week until January 2005, and I had a full time job at the time. I quit the job in early February. Everyone in the company was to receive a big pay cut, and I believed the company would not last much longer anyway, so I figured that was a good time to bail and give online poker a shot full time.

I have been playing 30 hours a week since then. So really I have 30 hours more a week to myself. Half of this went towards sleep, and that has been a great thing for me. I have never been a morning person, and I hate to stop whatever I am doing and go to sleep just because I have to be up at a certain time. I really only start to wake up when the sun starts to go down, for whatever reason. I felt like a total zombie all day every day at my job.

So now my 6 hours of play days are like this: Wake up at 2PM, shower, eat, whatever. Play 6PM-9PM. Eat, watch movie, whatever. Play 12AM-3AM. Go to sleep around 6AM. Unless I want to stay single for the rest of my life (and I don't), I probably can't keep these hours forever. Other than this, I don't see a problem with the pace, and I'm only doing days like this 12-15 days each month. The rest are much easier with only one 3 hour session per day, and I throw in a few days off each month too.

Maybe I won't wind up doing this for years, who knows. It's hard to have a real long term plan as I am still in the "moving up, bankroll building, discovering what's possible" phase. But for now my goal is to put away as much money as I can, and maybe eventually put it towards starting a business and/or investments.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Realistic earnings= 3-6 holdem 1200-1400 monthly.
This I believe is reality,.


[/ QUOTE ]

Absolute poker has AT LEAST 6 reloads every month for a total of 1200 $. To clear that you need to play 1200 raked hands. If you 3 table 1/2 6 max you clear at the very least 33 raked hands an hour/table = 10 $ an hour in bonus. Rakeback is another 5 $ an hour for three tables, and 1.5 BB/h should be no problem making it 10+5+3*3 = 24 $/h playing 1/2 6 max on absolute as long as there are reloads.
If you play only when you have a bonus it takes around 120 hours to make 2400 =~ 4 weeks.

Re: Going pro Article
 

PokerHorse,

You mention needing to make 1.5 BB/100 in the short games, and that this is difficult playing more than 3 tables. I have 8-tabled the 5-10 6max for over 2.5 BB/100, and although I consider myself to be very good, I'm not a shorthanded expert.

Like Ed said, it may not be "easy," but it is "no big deal."

Re: Going pro Article
 

someone should link to the original thread from a year ago that I believe was in the books/software forum.

p-horse is correct that lots of people jumped all over him.
I was one of those and it was a VERY long thread.
I remember LostWages was in that thread too I think.


As I recall, p-horse was insisting that you would have significantly higher variance as well because you were playing more tables (something like that anyway).


Lots of the top players around here do not read the magazine forum.
There are several who play 6-8 tables at a time without much problem. With the heads-up displays of your opponents stats that are now available it's even easier to do this.
I agree that not everyone can do this however.


I have been mostly playing 3/6 and 5/10 (full and 6-max) as my sole source of income since Apr, 2004.
Sometimes I'll throw in a tourney or two in there. I typically play anywhere from 4-6 tables.
As I type this post I'm playing just 2 tables of 6-max because that's all I feel like playing.


Still...the math of making $1k/wk playing 3/6 is relatively easy as was pointed out by me and several others in the original thread.

4 tables of 3/6 at roughly 1BB/hr = $25/hr.
40 hours of this is $1k/wk.

Or 5 tables of 3/6 at 1.2BB/hr = about $35/hr.
30 hours of this is $1050/wk


On the 3/6 6-max games on party one can get around 90 hands per hour so 2BB/hr on each table wouldn't be that super-human either even on multiple tables.
Throw in some rake-back in there and I would argue that for the dedicated 3/6 6-max milti-tabler it wouldn't be so impossible to push $2k/wk.


Just because p-horse can't do it he seems to think nobody can do it.
It's not for everyone.
But he is practically saying that those 2+2'ers who actually ARE making a living from the 3/6 and 5/10 games for MORE than 50k/yr couldn't possibly be that good and WILL fall.
This is not only ignorant but it's modestly insulting also.


No problem though....I'll just keep grinding out a living on the 3/6 and 5/10 games while continuing to improve my game and p-horse will continue to tell me that it's really not possible and that I'm just lucky.


FWIW - we've had several threads on 'how many hands to the pros play in a week' and there were SEVERAL who said that they had no problem playing 10k per week or more (and sustaining win-rates of 2BB/100).
I'm not quite as inspired and am more in the 5k-8k range typically which is just fine by me because I also have some more hands in tournaments where I have quite a bit of success too.

Re: where are they????
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really only start to wake up when the sun starts to go down, for whatever reason. I felt like a total zombie all day every day at my job.

[/ QUOTE ]


Interesting.. I have always been exactly the same way.
day jobs killed me.
But when I did sports broadcasting obviously most of my premium work was in the evening.

Re: Going pro Article
 

You shouldnt be insulted micro bob. Having played for so many years in B&M games and seeing the players come and go, i find it interesting how many claim to be making money multitabling low limit holdem.
once again you and others bring up the math. For the last time, I'm not questioning the possibility of it. I'm questioning the ability of players and long term aspects of it.
While you and others are so cavilier about making 1500 a week playing 3-6 or whatever, king yao, who I trust and respect is currently playing 50k hands of 6 maxx etc multitabling 3-4 tables. He has written, first off, about how large the swings are, but also how difficult it is to play well for any long period of time. here is a guy who has written a book and has put himself out there and talks about the realities of playing this way.
I have been playing 3-6 just 2 tables at a time, for only about 25k hands. I'm at 25voip/15pr/1.83bb/100.6maxx games
My experience is constant streaks up and down. I realize that playing only 2 tables isnt the same as 5-6 so maybe my volitility is higher. yao feels the internet is 4 times as volitile as B&M.even multitabling.
So it's amazing to me that so many players are unable to play proffesionally because of the swings at B&M yet, at the same time so many internet players are claiming its no big deal, and they are making an easy 2k a week.
Of course there are players who are making money, and most of those are players who are in the high middle limits and
high limit (ie the salmon etc). these guys arent multitabling more than a couple games. Now that's more realistic. And no, I do believe you are making money bob, but i dont think there is more than a handful of you.
good luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

a lot of the full-table multi-tablers play rock-tight and uncreative poker.

VP-13, PFR-4 is not uncommon for these guys.
They still have swings....but obviously are not playing ideally.
But if they are just winning 1BB/100 on 4-6 tables playing this way then they are better off than if they played only 2 tables of 2BB/100 because they are also getting rake-back.


However, it is also possible to play more serious poker on 6+ tables. I don't recommend it and definitely believe we are in the 'rare handful' category here. But guys like Schneids are excellent 10/20 6-max players even playing 8-tables at a time.
But that's too much for me to handle.


But handling 3-4 tables of 6-max isn't THAT unusual. Not everyone can do it obviously. And you won't get great reads some of the time (although you can get GT+ that displays all of your opponents stats right there on the screen so part of your 'reads' are already being made for you) but, again, 1.5BB/100 on 4 tables is obviously better than having good reads on just tables for a 2.5BB/100 win-rate (4 tables of 1.5BB = 6BB....where as 2 tables of 2.5 only = 5BB of course).


I think King Yao is terrific and am very much enjoying his book.
He is not saying anything significantly new though I don't think (although I haven't looked at his blog yet...just going off of what you are saying).
Everyone over in the HUSH forum here (lots of 6-max multi-tablers over there) will tell you that the bankroll swings can get pretty crazy.
But that doesn't mean it's unprofitable. It just means you have to be prepared for such swings.

Last night I was up 110BB's in about 40 minutes on 4 tables of 6-max.
By the end of the evening I was dead even...finishing with a -80BB downswing in my final hour or so.


In the first hour the highlight hand was having TT and getting caught in a PF raising war....then flopping top set and winning a huge pot that got capped a minimum of 3 ways on each round. Naturally my opponents had KK and AA.

In the last hour I had AA cracked 3 different times...flopped flushes running into rivered full-houses...and other similar nightmares.

It happens.



It's interesting because there are many on these forums (myself included) who wonder how a live B&M pro does it.
You either have to grind out a small hourly wage to stay relatively safe. Or you have to have a pretty nice bankroll to play pretty large....but it will still take you pretty darned long to make it to the long-run (since 2k-3k hands in a week would be a lot for a live player).
If internet-poker weren't around to allow me to crank out 7k-10k hands per week (I'm including my tourney hands in there) then I probably wouldn't want to try it as a live pro.

Whereas you are arguing how much more difficult it is to do it as an internet-multitabler as opposed to doing it live (at least at the low-stakes, multi-table grinding level).


Yes - you have the streaks and they can be pretty wacky. But you are cranking out SO many hands that you can get past a 10k hand downswing fairly quickly.
Whereas in live play a 10k hand streak of lousy luck will take several months to ride out.

Re: Going pro Article
 

Okay, I can live with your numbers. i believe you are correct that most players playing 4 plus tables have to be near the 1bb/100 or even slightly less. So they need to play at least 50k hands per month to say make 3k at 3-6. I believe this.
I appreciate totally what you are saying, now just for a second, ponder this. Someone who is playing very tight, very straight forward, etc., who doesnt make moves at the pot when it is small,(just one example), or is unable to take advantage of other situations, is probably playing close to breakeven poker , at best. This player is hoping that at all or most of the tables he/she is playing at, the players are making lots of mistakes to give him/her the edge.
Although I see lots of chasing, i also see lots of over aggressive playing. The chasing is of course great, but getting raised or re-raised by semi-maniacs etc., can be tough to deal with, especially while playing 4-6 tables.
very aggressive play is the great equalizer. In the live game i play, there is a very aggressive wealthy player who is a maniac of the highest order, and although everyone knows how he plays, and of course he is a long run loser, still i see him fairly regularly walk out with 100-150 big bet wins. Aggressive play, even if its incorrect can be a great equalizer in the short run.(or longer)
So the question remains, is there an edge, can you stay focused over time, etc.This is the crux of what ive been saying.
As far as the long run is concerned, it doesnt matter a bit unless you are sure you are a winning player who has a definate edge at the tables you are in. Otherwise you will longrun break even at best, or be a slight loser. It's just the reality of this game.
Bob, you probably have an edge, but just because someone plays profitable hands, it doesnt mean they will be pprofitable in the longrun, and this is something that players dont understand. aa, kk, qq, ak are going to give you a longrun profit pretty much all the time, but as you move down the ladder ,(and not very far, how you play hands that mathematically still show a edge- will determine your longrun earn, (i know you know this).Its doubtful that most multitablers play well enough without tilt etc to make it.With the big swings that can happen online, i believe it is easy to believe at certain times that you are a winning player when in reality you arent. I know a live player who has been winning for over three years, yet I know without a doubt that he is a losing player.
I appreciate your comments by the way as i enjoy the disscussion(debate?0) Bye the way, who is schneids??
good luck

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
i believe you are correct that most players playing 4 plus tables have to be near the 1bb/100 or even slightly less.

[/ QUOTE ]


i did not say this. I was just using the numbers as an example.

Most people playing 4-tables anywhere from 3/6 to 15/30 are likely pushing 2BB/100.
If they focused on just 1 or 2 tables and really tried hard on their player-reads than they might be closer to 2.5BB/100.

I usually am somewhere betwen 3-5 tables mixing 6-max ring with whatever tourneys I might be in the mood for.
I am around 1.5BB/100 on my ring-games.
Many of the multi-tablers in the SS and HUSH forums are better than me.


If you are making less than 1BB/100 then i would speculate that you would be better off playing fewer tables or stepping down in limits....but it's close.

But don't misunderstand my previous post to speculate that most multi-tablers make less than 1BB/100. The winning players around here definitely do better than that and it's pretty much been agreed upon that 1.5BB/100 to 2BB/100 is a very realistic win-rate for multi-tablers at many limits (of course....there are plenty of sucky players out there who are just losing players too).
The reason why it's agreed upon to be so realistic is that so many people are doing it.

The burn-out factor is a different issue entirely and obviously depends on one's make-up.
The younger players out there who grew up on video-games definitely have an advantage...because multi-tabling really just feels like a pretty goofy video-game just processing the info and acting on each hand as quickly as you can.

I'm 34 which is pretty old for these forums....but even I qualify in this 'video-game generation' as I grew up playing a ton of Atari games and the like.
Many a day I spent as a 12-year-old playing Kaboom or Frogger or Joust or whatever video-game was our favorite to play at the time.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its doubtful that most multitablers play well enough without tilt etc to make it.

[/ QUOTE ]



This is true.
Most multi-tablers...just like most poker-players in general...are pretty sucky.


But if you are capable of multi-tabling....and you are capable of playing a winning game...then it's not hard to play pretty decently on multiple tables.

There have been many hand-histories posted in the strategy forums here where someone will say 'I was multi-tabling so I had no reads other than the p-tracker stats on each of my opponents' (or not much of a read at all if there were no stats on the guy).
Still, you can pretty much determine whether a C/R was appropriate at such-and-such point and what-not.



I get the impression that you might a bit older than the kids doing it and you just don't see how one could possibly win 2BB/100 or more at 4-6 tables.
Many long-time B&M pro's who are very used to that game are the same way.

It's a new generation.
People have different talents and abilities.
Some people can play 400 or more hands an hour (95 hands per hour is not uncommon on a 6-max table...and with 4 tables that means you get more hands online in 1 hour than you are likely to get in an entire DAY of live play).


Not everyone can do it....but not everyone can play decent poker even on one table.
There are some of us....and it's a higher number than you seem to think....that can play 1.5k - 2k hands per day and consistently win and keep winning.

You seem somewhat open-minded to the 'possibilities'.

If I could....I would have you sit next to me while I 4-5 table the 6-max games for a few hours and show you that it's no big deal.
I would be able to talk to you about what I'm doing while also watching TV and/or sutfing 2+2.

I'm not THAT hyper-ADD-ish either. It's just multi-tasking and general busyness. I'm playing 3 tables as I type this. It's no big deal.

Re: Going pro Article
 

the math is wrong on this: for 1200 in bonuses you need 12000 raked hands of at least 25 cents.

Re: Going pro Article
 

lol okay, your right about the new generation. i view it as gamers who have switched from video games to poker in some circumstances. And that might give some an edge.
just out of curiosity what level do you play at 3-6 or above?

Re: Going pro Article
 

i'm pretty much 3/6 and 5/10 these days.

i have taken some shots with my winnings at 10/20 and 15/30. Have taken some hits occasionally...and other times just aren't caring too much for the swings. I have the bankroll to cover it but I want a larger bankroll for greater comfortability.
January was a VERY bad month for me at 15/30. 200BB's later I decided to grind it out more on the lower limits. It wasn't all due to just being on a bad downswing though. I don't think the quality of my play was where I would have liked it to be.
Yes....it obviously does take some concentration, and better than average play, to succeed on 4 tables of 15/30 online.
I've heard that the party 15/30 games aren't as good anymore now that they have the 30/60 games...but I haven't checked this out myself.


I also play a variety of tournaments including a few satellites for major events (playing more of these satellites lately).
This isn't the income that i 'count' on per-se...but I am profitable in the tournaments I play in also.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ]

No that's not good.

Re: Going pro Article
 

You can add me to your "exception to the rule" list... Perhaps you should rename it, because there are a whole lot of people doing it. Those of us who play regularly know.

I am still fairly new to it, but over 3 months and well over 200k hands, I think the variance has pretty well evened out and it can be assumed that the results will remain constant.

3 months in a row, I made between 5 and 6k a month.
March - 84 hours played - 5682$ profit (~2400$ rakeback+bonus)
April - 88 hours played - 5440$ profit (~3000$ rakeback+bonus)
May - 55 hours played - 5192$ profit (~3200$ rakeback+bonus)
In may i played as a prop and that resulted in alot less hours, but alot more bonus.
My win rate has been a steady 1BB/100 and I would play 12 tables of 3/6 fullhanded. The goal was 6 hours a night 5 nights a week, but as you can see by my hours I slacked alot. I would have played 16 tables if i had room for a 4th monitor.

Other issues kicked in late may which caused me to take a month long vacation, but since then I've come back. Now that party has introduced the large number of 3/6 6max tables, I'm getting ajusted to those. My sample size isnt near big enough, but i'm sure that I am winning and i am getting bored of 4 tabling. 8 tables of 6max would result in 800ish hands an hour, as opposed to the 750/hr i got from 12tabling fullhanded.


You really need to take bonuses and rakeback into account in your calculations. 8 tables of 3/6 6max, if you break even during play, results in about 35$ an hour from rakeback alone.

If you only pick the cream of the crop when it comes to bonuses (the party skins, some of the cryptos, etc), you're looking at an extra 600$ a month minimum.

If you prop at a site with flexible rules (doesnt make you leave full tables...there are a couple of them out there) you are recieving 110% rakeback instead of 25%. This results in 10+$ per hour per 3/6 table you play.


No, it is not difficult to make a living playing low limit hold'em. Anybody who knows how to use the resources available to them (bonuses and rakeback) can make plenty of money.

And as for you not factoring rakeback in...that just shows that you dont know what you're doing. "I wouldnt put it into the equation because those things change"???? Not playing with rakeback is like handing away 3$ every hour for every table you play. This could result in 1000$ lost every month just because you didnt want to change party skins. And i have no idea why someone wouldnt take advantage of the abundance of reload bonuses that are thrown at you every week.


From my time at 12 3/6 tables I saw a whole lot of familliar faces. Id say at least 15-20 others were doing the same thing that I was. And that is only during the hours that I played.

Just because you cant jump on the bandwagon, doesn't mean there is no bandwagon.

Re: Going pro Article
 

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for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

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No that's not good.

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4k a month is an above average salary. Maybe it is less than you are accustomed to, but I would consider anything above average to be good in the general sense of the word. Especially when you can make an above average salary playing low limit poker.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
4k a month is an above average salary. Maybe it is less than you are accustomed to, but I would consider anything above average to be good in the general sense of the word. Especially when you can make an above average salary playing low limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Above average if you work at Walmart. With all the college kids on 2+2 I'd hope your sights were set a little higher than 4K a month. My son just graduated college with a degree in theater and was offered a 24K a year starting salary for part time work while he builds his resume.

BTW, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for job promotion playing poker unless you are in the top tier. Not to mention lack of benefits.

Re: Going pro Article
 

I think that what pokerhorse is forgetting is that there are NO losing players on 2+2, ever. Only winners. Always. So that negates his whole theory.

Re: Going pro Article
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
for aprox 75 hours a month you think thats bad at 3-6? ok
you need to play 150 hours to make 4k. is that good? Ypu tell me

[/ QUOTE ]
No that's not good.

[/ QUOTE ]
4k a month is an above average salary. Maybe it is less than you are accustomed to, but I would consider anything above average to be good in the general sense of the word. Especially when you can make an above average salary playing low limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Above average if you work at Walmart. With all the college kids on 2+2 I'd hope your sights were set a little higher than 4K a month. My son just graduated college with a degree in theater and was offered a 24K a year starting salary for part time work while he builds his resume.

BTW, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for job promotion playing poker unless you are in the top tier. Not to mention lack of benefits.

[/ QUOTE ]

And don't forget to take off about 25% in taxes. So now he's down to $3K/M. What's his rent, grocery, utility, car payments, etc, bills? Maybe $2K/M? More if he's living in LA, SF, NY or another big city. Now he's down to 1K/M profit. So he's making a profit of 12K per year and ruining his eyes staring into his PC screen :-)

I'm sure there are a bunch of 21-26 yer olds doing just this. That's OK though. While they sit and waste away at their PC's I'm out there at the B&M playing 100NL and going home with the cocktail waitresses and Pan9 losers (cute asian babes with tight bods and willing attitudes) each night. If you don't even get to enjoy the perks of being a poker player then what's the point?

Re: Going pro Article
 

I hope some day I will be able to play the 100NL.