22 on the button

I are in a game where a player who wants to come in can post behind the blinds but in front of the button. This creates the situation where there are 3 "blind" hands to the left of the button.


This happens, putting 8 chips of dead money in the pot, and everyone folds to me on the button with 22.


Call, raise, fold? I genuinely did not know what the best move would be.


In this case, I had made a couple hands recently so I'd been betting and raising a lot. I figured my odds of stealing the blinds were pretty low after betting so much recently, so I folded.


natedogg

I raise first in with any pair on the button unless there's something unusual about one or both of the blinds (he never surrenders, he plays better than me, etc.). In this case you're getting an overlay from the normal bet 6 chips to win 5; so your raising standards should be lower. Even though they know this, they're still out of position, and your hand does have some value should they elect to play with you.


I always figure my chances of "stealing" are higher after winning a bunch of pots, since they figure I'm hot.

the only question I'd have about your play would be what are your chances of getting heads up against one of the blinds. If you have a good shot at that then I think you might have odds to raise. what are the odds of two unmatched cards(say big blind has 8-10 suited). pairing up? I think it's around 50/50, maybe a little worse. so if you think a raise would get you heads up and you feel your positional advantage/hand reading ability would be enough to keep you from paying off if he did hit his pair/draw, maybe it would be a time to raise here.


just a thought, apologies for not being able to quote exact numbers for ya


p.s. where I come from people will call a raise in the big with 10-2 off so you have slim to no chance of getting heads up

I raise without a doubt in this situation. They won't know where you're coming from and if an ace appears, you might be able to take the pot right there. If it comes something raggedy like 852 and they bet into you or you both check the river, you'll make good profit by raising the turn and they'll probably call you down.

This is a raise or call situation.


I don't get the fold. You have position with the possibility of flopping a set against what will likely be 3 opponents which means that there is a chance that someone will catch a pair or a draw or what have you to give you some action. Alternatively, the flop could miss everyone and they check and you take the pot with a flop bet etc etc.


The worst case scenario is that you call preflop, miss your set and some other guy bets. Well, you then fold and are out 1 small bet (well, I suppose the worst case scenario is when all of this occurs after one of the blinds raises preflop but a raise from the blinds is surely rare in your game just as in any other game).


Anyway, the long and short of it is that there is no way I would fold preflop.

With almost no chance of picking up the blinds uncontested, I certainly wouldn't want to raise. But I wouldn't want to fold either. I think it's a mis-nomer that this is a raise or fold situation. I don't see much wrong with limping, but only if you are correct in your assessment of the blinds defending. With even a very small chance they would all fold, you should probably raise.

I don't think there's anything wrong with limping either. But folding is way bad, even compared to playing by numbers (limp preflop and fold or check postflop if no 2 hits).


Tommy

I think that calling is not an option.I must either raise or fold. Raising puts me ia a great position to steal, either before the flop or after the flop. If I just call I cant winthis pot unless a 2 hits and since the odds of hitting a deuce are seven and a half to one and I'm getting only 3to1, it's a bad call

Your implied odds are much better than 3:1. This is what counts. They may or may not be 7.5 - 1, depending on the opponents. If they are loose, then yes.


There is also no law that says you can't steal later. It will probably be easier to steal later if you just call, as the pot will be smaller and your hand harder to define.


Dan Z.

"If I just call I cant win this pot unless a 2 hits"


Why? Just because you didn't raise preflop? Sometimes it's easier to bluff BECAUSE I didn't raise.


"and since the odds of hitting a deuce are seven and a half to one and I'm getting only 3to1, it's a bad call."


By that reasoning it would never be right to limp with 22 unless the pot was already laying 7.5-1 before we limped, which virtually never happens.


Tommy