online poker players: an easy "tell"?

[MisterKing]

While I'm hardly the seasoned veteran that many of you fellow 2+2ers are, I have been kicking around a little theory the last few months that may or may not be rooted in reality. The theory is simple: in low limit, online poker, any player with the term "dog" in their name, is likely to be unskilled.

Now this is hardly scientific, and I'd like to dig into my PT records to see if I can offer some evidence, but anecdotally, it seems everytime I see someone with the name "JeffDog04," ThunderDogg," "DoggyStyleDave," or whatever, they're just plain awful. Not sure if this correlation has to do with the kind skill associated with a player likely to select such a name, the age and demographic the "dog" players tend to come from (presumably young, or rural -- yes, I know these are broad stereotypes), or what.

While I would never bet the farm based solely on this read, I do think, absent any other compelling information one way or another, I am inclined to call these guys down than other unknown players.

Am I nuts? Anyone have similar experiences.

[poker-penguin]

Hey, I resemble that remark.

One of my handles (I have a different one at each site) is robodog. Since my results at this site have been worse than most of the other skins of that family, I think you're right.

[Drunk Bob]

Reverse Tell: Anyone with the word "bluff" most likely ain't.

[Soggy Salmon]

I was bored, and a bit curious about names and style or skill level, myself, so I went through my pokertracker data and looked up the players with dog names and tallied them up. I have just under 40% of dog-named players as winners.

However, out of all the players in my database, 40% are winners. So I wouldn't go making any adjustments to your play based on a dog name just yet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mike Haven]

and I'd like to dig into my PT records to see if I can offer some evidence

methinks you have a little too much time on your hands - get yourself a pet to look after instead

[Burno]

I don't know about the dog thing(It's only a matter of time before Natedogg gets to this thread).

From my experience, anyone with golf or golfer in their name sucks. Maybe since they all tell themselves that they are good golfers, they are able to convince themselves they are winning poker players as well. Just my observation, nothing more.

[Victor]

Hi Misterking,

You said "in low limit, online poker, any player with the term "dog" in their name, is likely to be unskilled."

I think in low-limit online poker, almost all players all unskilled.

[Rooster71]

I don't know about the "dog" name tell. But I have noticed a reverse tell (it may or may not hold true) that players with self-deprecating names like "AnotherDumbGuy" and "ReallyDumbGuy" seem to be better than average. Another "tell" I've noticed is that players who use screen names that reference the Rounders movie are generally not that good. It also seems to me that players using boastful names like "ULose2MeNow", "URMyATM" and "UrChipsCum2Me" are not very good either.

Just my observation. There are sure to be some exceptions.

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
The theory is simple: in low limit, online poker, any player with the term "dog" in their name, is likely to be unskilled

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you mind posting what sites you play at and your playing nick there? Myself and maybe Dogsballs and a couple of others could drop in and help you....gather some data to test this theory.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
absent any other compelling information one way or another, I am inclined to call these guys down than other unknown players

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that gave me a good laugh.
Cmon guys do you really place that much value in a person's name? Please tell me this entire thread was a big joke and I just don't get it.

btw, PLEASE don't let Mike Caro get a hold of this thread. God only knows what kind of crazy things he could start preaching..."if the name begins with A-K..." or "if the preflop raiser has a rounders referenced name..."

The only unknown(no notes) name I really pay attention to is if I recognize it from 2+2.

[guppy]

[ QUOTE ]
The only unknown(no notes) name I really pay attention to is if I recognize it from 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I don't use my 2+2 name when playing online. Just in case I get good someday.

[Rushmore]

Exception: you might want to steer clear of EDOGN (Eric Lindgren) at Stars, although he's not likely to be at a low-limit table.

And Rooster said it right: Rounders references are generally newer, and therefore less talented players, in my observation.

Oh, yeah, and the Magic card guys tend to be less than stellar, too. I would think this would be for obvious reasons.

Uh oh, I sense I might receive some flak for this.

Oops. Clicked the submit button. Oh well.

Edit? Nah.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, that gave me a good laugh.
Cmon guys do you really place that much value in a person's name? Please tell me this entire thread was a big joke and I just don't get it

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to start any unpleasantness here, but do you honestly believe that identifying aspects of one's mentality based upon the way one chooses to define one's self is really all that useless as potential information at a poker table?

Ever sat in a game where there's a player with a mohawk, with his eyebrow peirced, his wacky, loud friends sweating him , asking him for nickel chips as they run back and forth to the craps tables?

You wouldn't consider this profile at all when playing against this player?

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about the "dog" name tell. But I have noticed a reverse tell (it may or may not hold true) that players with self-deprecating names like "AnotherDumbGuy" and "ReallyDumbGuy" seem to be better than average. Another "tell" I've noticed is that players who use screen names that reference the Rounders movie are generally not that good. It also seems to me that players using boastful names like "ULose2MeNow", "URMyATM" and "UrChipsCum2Me" are not very good either.

Just my observation. There are sure to be some exceptions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of last night. A new players sits down at a AP 3/6 table with $30 named 2Kool2Loose. Busts out in 3 hands

[Michael Davis]

Your claim that low limit players are unskilled is outrageous.

-Michael

[TwoNiner]

Players from New York/New Jersey= aggro, probably worse than normal. Players from California probably better than average. And of course players from the motherland of poker, Texas, are the best. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[MisterKing]

I'm shocked my half-serious post drew so many responses... and such variety among them. Look -- I never said you should put much stock in this read, if you can even call it that. I wouldn't even use this concept in all but the most borderline of circumstances, when the other much more reliable indicators leave me with no clear choice.

But the idea that some names tend to be self-select among lesser or greater skilled players does hold water, I think. The rounders references are a great example, as are the self-depricating ones (including those that have "fish"). Thanks to everyone for bringing these up.

Essentially, this idea centers on table image, and since we can't show up in person at the online tables, we bring a different set of attributes to define ourselves, including our name. This is the first thing our opponents see, and it is by far the most prevalent. Whether or not we respond to questions, talk trash, say "nh" when someone beats us, and all of those other things also come into play when considering "online table image."

Maybe "dog" names in general (of course with exceptions -- so those of you with "dog" in your handle please don't come in and start taking offense) do fit this self-select profile, who knows. And when I said that "dog" players at low limits appear to be unskilled, I meant relative to the competition.

[ZeeJustin]

There is a huge fish on pokerstars named EDOGN.

[Sundevils21]

Rushmore, I agree lets keep it from getting unpleasent.
First off, I don't think I'm giving up any EV by disregarding a players handle and going off of betting patterns/pokertracker.

[ QUOTE ]
Ever sat in a game where there's a player with a mohawk, with his eyebrow peirced, his wacky, loud friends sweating him , asking him for nickel chips as they run back and forth to the craps tables?


[/ QUOTE ]
of course I would pay attention to that. That is an extreme though. Thats like me asking you this... Well if you saw a guy on party with the name "rockhard", would you only play AA and KK to his preflop raise? Of course not.
However, if that peirced guy had only played 1 pot in the last hour I would give MUCH more heed to that advice than his appearence.
As for my Caro advice, I was just kidding. But I'm not a big Caro fan myself, though im sure some can put his advice to good use. I don't play live poker so I cannot. I have only watched his short, free video clips and I think he's a little out there.

[Rushmore]

I used an extreme example because I thought it illustrated my point. I honestly believe there IS a little something to making at least a preliminary assessment based on screenname, until proven wrong.

As for Caro, I don't think you'll find too many arguments here.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly believe there IS a little something to making at least a preliminary assessment based on screenname

[/ QUOTE ]

I have my doubts. I'm kinda on the fence about this, you could very well be right though.
I personally think that calling a player down more/less because of "dog" somewhere in the sn is too far. However, the original poster made it clear that he was half joking in the post so he might not have really meant actually taking it that far.

[Rushmore]

Although the original poster was, indeed, half-joking, i'd like to point out that part of his point, under the surface as it might have been, could be seen to have its basis in the fact that "dog" is a bravado term originating in the African-American community.

If we can agree that the percentage of African-American players in the game is below that which exists in the general public, we may then assume that these are youngish white guys who are fairly easily-influenced by television, movies, pop music, and what is "cool."

This profile does not seem to me to be particularly impressive from a poker perspective.

I have clearly just given more of a response than was warranted here.

[Michael Davis]

I'm actually from Detroit, but in all honesty, on the rare occasions I play online, I generally will leave a table if I see too many Californians. The games are definitely easier during times when the East Coasters are online.

-Michael

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm actually from Detroit, but in all honesty, on the rare occasions I play online, I generally will leave a table if I see too many Californians. The games are definitely easier during times when the East Coasters are online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think i'm definatly missing a part of online poker.
btw, I though California players are the ones a person would *want* in their games. Haven't I read numerous times that the best games to play were in cali? Thus implying that the players are horrible. I think most would agree that California is a better place to be if your a professional poker player.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
...any player with the term "dog" in their name, is likely to be unskilled.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.eurweb.com/images/09162003/snoop_dogg(doggfather-good).jpg

"Re-rizzle."

[Michael Davis]

Yes, all of the bad California players are at the casinos, though.

-Michael

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only unknown(no notes) name I really pay attention to is if I recognize it from 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I don't use my 2+2 name when playing online. Just in case I get good someday.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you not want 2+2'ers to know your name? If they don't know your name then they might sit at your table. I want everybody to know my online sn's so that they(hopefully) avoid me.
Im sure that last sentence was completely wrong. I'll bet you guys hunt me down, don't you? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[jpym84]

I've definitely noticed the same thing, although I've seen alot of exceptions too. I've also noticed that when its spelled "dawg" it tends to be a LAG, but when spelled conventionally its usually a loose/passive player.
A couple more that I've noticed:
-Players with words like "river" or "fish" in their names are almost always good players.
-Anybody with a name I recognize from 2+2 is dangerous.
Of course I'm always going to pay more attention to how someone plays than how retarded their screenname is.

[dogsballs]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you not want 2+2'ers to know your name? If they don't know your name then they might sit at your table. I want everybody to know my online sn's so that they(hopefully) avoid me.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I sign uop for SNG's, I like to be the first on the list, to hgopefully keep some of the other sharky players away. There's a hard core of regulars in the 50 and 100 SNG's I play, so hopefully some of them decide not to sit down if I'm teh only one so far on the list while a few fishier types won't recognise me and just plunk themselves down.

I agree with the earlier poster re Rounders references and golf names etc (cant recall a single good player yet w a golf related nick; tho I'm sure some are out there, of course).

A lot of canadians are very aggressive for whatever reason, as are scandinavians. Also, anyone from Las Vegas doesnt scare me one bit; I love seeing a player from vegas...they usually suck and blow at the same time (apologies to any of the good vegas players, but your town-mates online are rotten poker players very often).

[MicroBob]

i cant really get a handle on any of the LV players (or nevada players in general) as i have run across a few strong ones....and some awfully lousy ones.

totally agree that any rounders reference might be the most obvious of the i'm-a-fish tells.

when i was getting started and was extremely fishy i got berated at a stars table by one of the zillion guys there with an Ed Norton pic. my A9 all-in hit a couple of 9's on the flop to bust his QQ...cant believe i still remember that, but it was the first time i ever ran across a mean table-coach so i guess that's why it stuck in my mind.



agree about the general fishyness of east-coast players compared with west coast. to that end it's helpful and interesting to know one's american geography with regards to suburbs of various big cities.
so many sites just use the city name without the state or country.
generic names like springfield or hamilton could be almost anywhere.
reading or york can be pennsylvania or england.


i grew up in Oxford.....which is Ohio, not England or Mississippi or Georgia or Iowa (all of which also have Oxfords).

another one i have noticed more locally is that players from Tunica or Robinsonville (in Tunica county) are usually decent.
only dealers or other casino employees actually live in those towns.
being a dealer does NOT mean they are a good player obviously.....but i have yet to run across any super-fish who live in tunica or robinsonville.
a lot of tunica dealers also live in southaven and horn lake, but a far greater percentage of these towns have nothing to do with the casinos.


somebody posted awhile ago in NV&G or some other forum that stars players with pics of their kids are universally fishy.
i think somebody also added something similar regarding players who use pics of their pets....but i've run across a couple of cute looking puppies over there who are pretty tough freaking players.


i think geekier pics can be more closely associated with stronger players.
star-trek pics (beware of any player with a klingon pic).
i would add adult-swim pics as well as these are extremely geeky and usually indicate some strength....but i was the fishyest of the fish when i started and i had an adult-swim pic so it is definately not 100% accurate.

[Turning Stone Pro]

If I have a real big pocket pair in middle to late position, and I'm hoping some morons raise ahead of me so I can reraise and shorten the field, no one ever raises in front of me like I want if I click the "raise any" function before the action gets to me.

I get much better results if I wait for the prompter to ask me what I want to do, and I click "raise" myself.

This technique alone should improve everyone's game dramatically. Just remember who told ya.

TSP

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
If I have a real big pocket pair in middle to late position, and I'm hoping some morons raise ahead of me so I can reraise and shorten the field, no one ever raises in front of me like I want if I click the "raise any" function before the action gets to me.

I get much better results if I wait for the prompter to ask me what I want to do, and I click "raise" myself.

This technique alone should improve everyone's game dramatically. Just remember who told ya.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been to Turning Stone, they don't have a Raise Any button at their tables.

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I honestly believe there IS a little something to making at least a preliminary assessment based on screenname

[/ QUOTE ]

I have my doubts. I'm kinda on the fence about this, you could very well be right though.
I personally think that calling a player down more/less because of "dog" somewhere in the sn is too far. However, the original poster made it clear that he was half joking in the post so he might not have really meant actually taking it that far.

[/ QUOTE ]

With regard to Rushmore's suggestion that he believes "there IS a little something to making at least a preliminary assessment based on screenname, until proven wrong," I would probably disagree. This isn't the kind of thing where the screenname sets the lead and you read from there. It isn't nearly that strong. Instead, my point -- and my very limited point at that -- was that when all the other more reliable factors come down to a tie, when you have no other differentiating information, you might want to lean towards calling the "dog" guys down. This is a read of last resort, imo.

So I'm serious about that part. But as for this getting you much EV, if any at all, well, I'm a lot closer to half-serious about that part. It was just a thought, and I'm still kinda surprised posting it got such a reaction.

This whole discussion does beg the question (which may have been answered unbeknownst to me): Is there a reliable, authoritative set of reads and tells unique to online players? If so, where do I find it?

[MisterKing]

That's the spirit, Snoop.

I actually had some funny ass LAG suburban white boy saying "rizzle" and crap like that at my table last time I was up in AC. This is the same guy that, when short stacked, moved all in at a 2/4 table on the turn, and when turning over his SECOND PAIR at the showdown shouted "I'm rick james, bitch!" for all to hear. So he lost his chips and his dignity all on one hand...

Priceless

[MicroBob]

i am very much conflicted between moving east to take advantage of idiot-players like this....and running as far away as possible to avoid pathetic suburban white boys who say 'shizzle'.

[J_V]

[ QUOTE ]
Cmon guys do you really place that much value in a person's name? Please tell me this entire thread was a big joke and I just don't get it.



[/ QUOTE ]


Yes.

[J_V]

I can give all kinds of examples of players w/ certain words in their name that play a certain way.

[SpeakEasy]

EDOGN is playing a $5000 heads-up table at Pokerstars right now -- table 2016010. Test the "dog" theory in action...

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
EDOGN is playing a $5000 heads-up table at Pokerstars right now -- table 2016010. Test the "dog" theory in action...

[/ QUOTE ]

Did he win??


I've also noticed that based on my poker tracker results about 65% of players with a vowel in their names are overall losers.

[RydenStoompala]

I had not noticed the "dog" effect, but I dont play that often. I have noticed that many of the Scandinavian players with names like "pikka" "ooly" or "misha"...cutesy names that make you want to buy guns...really suck. Either that or I just want them to suck. I'm not sure which is true.

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
EDOGN is playing a $5000 heads-up table at Pokerstars right now -- table 2016010. Test the "dog" theory in action...

[/ QUOTE ]

That ain't exactly low limit.

-AA


P.S. WTF is izzle?

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
If I have a real big pocket pair in middle to late position, and I'm hoping some morons raise ahead of me so I can reraise and shorten the field, no one ever raises in front of me like I want if I click the "raise any" function before the action gets to me.

I get much better results if I wait for the prompter to ask me what I want to do, and I click "raise" myself.

This technique alone should improve everyone's game dramatically. Just remember who told ya.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I've had the impression that people who use the check boxes tend to try to deceive with them; someone who checks "raise any" seems (in my experience, which is admittedly still relatively limited) more likely to be bluffing than someone who hits the button when prompted. I avoid the check boxes, unless the site is very slow, so as to avoid giving up any tells.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I resemble that remark.

One of my handles (I have a different one at each site) is robodog. Since my results at this site have been worse than most of the other skins of that family, I think you're right.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol..resemble? I think you mean resent.

[GrannyMae]

players who use screen names that reference the Rounders movie are generally not that good

i posted 2 years ago that this is the strongest name tell on the internet. my database *still* has no winners with rounders names, and only 2 that are slight losers. the rest are horrid.

i can't find a single exception


http://photos.search.aol.com/images/mvz0006/3915.jpg

[slogger]

No, he likely meant "resemble." It's a joke.

[tolbiny]

I would stay in memphis, out on the east coast it has a tendancy to
"drizzle"

[MaxPower]

I've found that most players who have Dr or MD in there name are terrible. Then again, most players are terrible.

[submariner]

Two general questions for various posters...
What is 'adult-swim', as in people having adultswim pictures?
Do that many people have the pictures/animation turned on?
I have as much graphics/animation turned off as possible...am I the Lone Ranger here?
Also, the whole rizzle/shizzle etc thing I also don't get...but I don't watch much TV...

[dogmeat]

Now I understand why I did not cash at the WSOP this year!

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[doggin]

but for me........yup, you're pretty damn close.
But Edog gives me lottsa hope. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TimM]

I find that most players who have sports team names or similar sports references (usually baseball or hockey) in their screen names tend to be loose agressive. Sometimes the link is not obvious. I played with one guy with a name something like Amazing_86 (VPIP >50% PFR >23%). Of course he was a Mets fan.

[DJGroove]

Actually, I have much the same outlook. Player handles can be very telling. "Dog" when added as a suffix doesn't usually evoke a huge response. When that is changed to "dawg", alarm bells go off. Also of note is the use of a "z" where an "s" should go.

An addition to this theory is the use of "420". Any player handle with 420 in it catches my eye, and it seems they tend to be fishy.

Lastly, names that seem to give away playing styles are usually wrong and often opposite. For example, I would expect someone with the handle of "BigBluffr" to rarely bluff. It's some kind of Caro reverse tell.

So, what have we learned?
- "Skills" = no tell
- "Skillz" = Expect player to be younger, possibly fishy
- "Skillzdawg" = Little red lights flash and the word "fish" appears in bright letters in your mind
- "Skillzdawg420" - Always play with this player. You will make a lot of money from him (definately a him)
- "BlufSkillzdawg420" - Perma-fish calling station

And while this post was made mainly for fun, it does hold a little tiny bit of truth.

~DJGroovzdawg420

[Cry Me A River]

[ QUOTE ]
What is 'adult-swim', as in people having adultswim pictures?


[/ QUOTE ]

Adult Swim is a programming block on Cartoon Network. 'Toons for "adults" - Sealab 2021, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Harvey Birdman, etc...

[Rooster71]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you not want 2+2'ers to know your name? If they don't know your name then they might sit at your table. I want everybody to know my online sn's so that they(hopefully) avoid me.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I sign uop for SNG's, I like to be the first on the list, to hgopefully keep some of the other sharky players away. There's a hard core of regulars in the 50 and 100 SNG's I play, so hopefully some of them decide not to sit down if I'm teh only one so far on the list while a few fishier types won't recognise me and just plunk themselves down.

I agree with the earlier poster re Rounders references and golf names etc (cant recall a single good player yet w a golf related nick; tho I'm sure some are out there, of course).

A lot of canadians are very aggressive for whatever reason, as are scandinavians. Also, anyone from Las Vegas doesnt scare me one bit; I love seeing a player from vegas...they usually suck and blow at the same time (apologies to any of the good vegas players, but your town-mates online are rotten poker players very often).

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the Vegas players online. Especially when it's in their name, like VegasJoe or BigVegasBob.