Party hacked??? Suspicious hands here

[SofaCoach]

I'm no conspiracy theorist and I usually poo-poo any notions that there is cheating in online poker (except for some isolated cases of collusion). But these hands have me suspicious. I almost appears that the villian knew what cards were coming. In both cases he raised PF with 6-3 offsuit. In the second hand he capped PF. In the first hand he makes quads, the second he makes a straight. More comments at the end...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop:
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MPB folds, MP3 calls, CO <font color="purple">(villain)</font> raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, villain raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 3-bets, villain caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 bets $2 (All-In), MP1 calls, villain calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
MP1 bets, villain raises, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 14.75 BB, between villain, UTG+1 and MP1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by villain (14.75 BB).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 4 BB, between villain and MP1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by villain (4 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+1 shows Th Ts (full house, threes full of tens).
MP1 shows Qs Js (full house, threes full of jacks).
villain shows 3h 6s (four of a kind, threes).
Outcome: villain wins 18.75 BB. </font>

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop:
UTG calls, UTGB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 <font color="purple">(villain)</font> raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 <font color="purple">(villain)</font> caps, CO calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, villain bets, CO calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, villain bets, CO calls, Button folds, UTG folds.

River: (10.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
villain bets, Elhos calls.




Results in white below: <font color="white">
CO shows 6s 6s (two pair, sixes and fours).
villain shows 3h 6s (straight, two to six).
Outcome: villain wins 14.25 BB. </font>

So I check out this guys stats on PT. He played 39 hands at this table. His VPIP was 92 and his PFR was 25, so yes he is obviously a LAP. But if you raise 25% of the time you still wouldn't choose 6-3 would you??? He won four hands, two with 6-3 and two with Q-7 (he did not raise the Q7 hands.)

I made a comment about 3-6 being his favorite hand. He made some lame comment back and left a couple hands later. (up $26).

So what do you guys think...genius hacker or lucky moron????

BTW, I had rags and folded PF both hands so these did not effect my bottom line.

[csuf_gambler]

did the villians name happen to be "Pinoy81281"?


i played this guy and there appeared to be some suspucious sh1t going on as well.

[Schneids]

I played .5/1 once about 3 weeks ago on the same table as a friend who is just starting the game.

I raised probably 30% of the hands I was dealt, in about the 20 minutes I sat at the table (you should have seen how awesome the table was still after I left!).

I remember one time after some limpers I raised 73o on the button, and I flopped trips.


Strange shyte happens sometimes, but it isn't because of hacking.

[illunious]

Nothing to worry about. I'll often blow off some steam at the nano-limits. Once in a while I'll hit some crazy streaks and run over the table, but most of the time I just lose my buy in and leave.

Besides, if the villain did in fact know what cards were coming, he wouldn't have VPIP with a single hand that was a loser.

[easypete]

It's easy to think that it's rigged... I've seen a LAG take about $200 off a 1/2 table at party.... He wasn't selective, just raised everything.... he won about 16 hands in a row.

I contacted Party about it... they assured me that it was random. From what I understand, the RNG doesn't pick the cards until all bets are made. So no hack can expose to any player what the cards are before the betting round.

[Danenania]

Not to mention if someone was capable of hacking Party why would they play 1/2?

[Peter Harris]

when on tilt my friend goes to paradise 0.02/0.04 and raises every hand - his task is to break even after 30 mins.

This is redolent of a higher limit player's frustration.

Pete Harris

[3rdEye]

If he "knew" he would make quad 3s in the first hand, why wouldn't he cap on the turn? Notice that he merely called one bet (presumably out of fear of a flush).

[Brian]

.

[imitation]

Play some more hands nothing surprising here, i've just moved my money from empire to party, and i'm on a massive -75BB swing at the moment, including having AA cracked 4 times in one session with guys hitting runner runner flushes holding 37s with capped preflop. Another guy capping the flop after I hit a set of AA with 33 then runner runner quads.

[HajiShirazu]

I think 36o is just this guy's lucky hand.
If he really was in on a hack, why did he not raise the turn in hand 1 because the flush card hit. Certainly he would want to collect more bets if someone had the flush here, since he knew his quads card would kill the action on the river.
Also, if he was hacking, why would he use it in 1/2?

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you guys think...genius hacker or lucky moron????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I don't really attribute this to hacking. I vote "lucky moron", or just someone blowing off steam. It was just so strange with both of these 3-6's raised preflop and hitting big hands with them...what are the odds?? Oh, and I forgot to mention that both these hands hit in the same orbit.

Just weird, so I thought I'd share.

[Crabs]

Maybe it really is just a coincidence. I saw a guy call 65o in mid position, same guy, 2x in a row, won both times. Then, the next hand was all 65 on the board. Then, later he got dealt 65 again, and won with it.

I have also been dealt the exact same cards 2x in a row, same suit sometimes too. One night, I got QQ 8x in a 1 hour session (Of which I won the first time, lost all the others).

I was doing pretty good in the tournaments, then one night after someone won a hand, I was almost disconnected, a big long pause. I have lost every tournament since!

I think the software does have a bias, a geographic bias: I think that the time delay which is different based on who is playing and where they are located, affects the outcome of the random cards.

I have seen people who could check,instead fold, for no apparent reason, then the guy after them bets. If the order was changed I'd understand it.

I don't think its someone hacking the software, but one thing is for sure:

Your money leaves the US and ends up in Quebec and Holland, thats where PartyPoker is stationed. I looked up the IP adress for PartyPoker and its in Quebec (note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

I looked up the IP address for IglobalMedia, the company that makes PartyPokers software (and other online poker rooms too), and they are in Amsterdam, Holland.

Have you ever written to PartyPoker? Take a look at the names of the people who respond.

Maybe were just putting money in the pockets of people who hate us.

[milesdyson]

Crabs:

Worst. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.

[prayformojo]

[ QUOTE ]
Your money leaves the US and ends up in Quebec and Holland, thats where PartyPoker is stationed. I looked up the IP adress for PartyPoker and its in Quebec (note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL. The people in Quebec through whom Party operates are not French Canadians. They are Native Canadians. And it is pretty likely that they are actually just intermediaries taking advantage of their unique legal status, and taking a cut from the large corporations that actually have the capital and clout to back the site.

The Natives may or may not "hate Americans". But try to be sure which group you're talking about when you get your branding iron heated.

[Michael Davis]

Not true. He would have to be a really stupid hacker to win every hand.

FWIW, I think the odds are 1000-1 against this guy being a hacker.

-Michael

[Crabs]

O.K, maybe the actual people involved aren't any specific nationality, or hold any grudges agianst any particuliar country. I shouldn't have stated bigotry as a possible conspiracy point, I was just waving the flames of ridicoulous conspiracy theories.

Why not just set up in Nevada? Gamblings legal, rent is cheap (Outside Las Vegas). Not really a conspiracy, probably to avoid taxes.

O.K., enough on conspiracies. I do not believe there are any intentional scams.

I played this weekend, between hands there were approximately 2-4K hands, at 50cents a hand for the rake, I can't see why you would need to ripp people off.

All random number generators are psuedo-random. Most have a list of numbers thats very long, the value is chosen from the list by jumping in at a certain point. Where do you jump into the list? There is a seed for the random number generator, usally its time based.

So a couple things could happen, depending on how the program is written:

1) the cards are generated as needed, random cards are chosen and dealt to players in order just like a real game.

2) the cards are generated at the server for all players, then dealt out to the recicipients.

3) no random individual sets are ever drawn, instead the list consists of all 10 postion simultaenous draws (there are a fixed number of 15 card combinations out of a deck, think of Solitaure, how each game is numbered) and one "game" from that list of thousands is drawn.

Why would it matter?

In the first scenerio time delay between servers would effect outcome of the cards asuming some sort of handshaking was involved between your client side PartyPoker app. and the partypoker server. As time (in Milliseconds) marches on, you jump into that random list at a different spot.

I think the time delay caused by geographic distance to the server would affect the card outcome. BUT, I admit it may not be an intentional or even harmful bias.

In the third situation all the cards are basicly pre-determined. Using that method you could actaully set up the poker room to be a pay-off system, just like a slot machine has a payoff interval. There is always a winning or split hole position. Obviously, if everybody folds than any one of those positions could still win, yet its not likely AA will fold when you bluff with 64. With that method, each player could have a ranking, and his ranking would determine which one of the holes he fell into.

The advantage to that system is you don't spend time generating cards, and when you got thousands of people playing thats a lot of cards to randomly generate. Still, I doubt it would be done this way in a legitimate card room.

I don't know how they choose the cards, I think it is important though to simulate a real deck as much as possible.


I'm using a program called PokerTracker to catalogue my hands. I only recently started collecting hand histories and wish I had started sooner. I have a little over 2000 ring hands, and 20 tournaments. I think I would need tens of thousands of hands to have any real data.

I have had all 169 possible starting hands dealt to me at least 2x. My top 5 dealings out of 2208 hands are :

J8o:34, Q9o:32, 32o:31, K9o:30, A3o:29.

The ratio of Most to least is (17:1), meaning the most frequent set is dealt 17x more often than the least dealt. My least dealt hand is A6s (coming in at 2x).

(I'll try to get a standard deviation and post that later)

I would expect offsuit hands to be higher than pairs and suited hands, because there are more ways to make an offsuit combination.

In case your wondering:

AA:12, KK:15, QQ:10, JJ:07, TT:10
99:11, 88:08, 77:14, 66:06, 55:04
44:10, 33:07, 22:18

for the high pairs those are pretty close numbers, which makes me think they are more likely to be evenly distributed.

Of course starting hands are only part of playing, everybody knows the flop can turn AA into crap and 26o into gold.

The program does not tell me some things I would like to know: such as how many times when I folded, could I have won going to the river. Or better still how many times I folded and the same cards (different suits) showed up on the flop!

You could always try a different online site, theres lots of them. Maybe the only problem at party is there are too many maniacs, calling stations, and people looking for conspiracies...

[jpym84]

A few years ago some of the poker sites actually did have a problem with their shuffling algorithms (see http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/print.php/11070_616221_2). I'm pretty sure that most of the sites fixed the problems after that article was written, and even with those problems I doubt that any player could gain much of an advantage.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
I looked up the IP adress for PartyPoker and its in Quebec (note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

[/ QUOTE ]

As a Canadian, I find this unbelievably insulting. French Canadians hate Americans?! Come on, man. What makes you think hating Americans is restricted to Les Quebecois? Get your facts straight if you're going to fire out accusations. The good news is that since we all know each other up here, it's no trouble at all for Ken or Larry or Proudfoot to fire off an instant message that lets us know what cards to expect. Why do it at .5/1? It's not about the money... it's about getting the chance to read posts like this. And what with the weather being so cold, we have to do something to pass the time. Face it Yank... you're screwed six ways from Sunday. Because you're obviously so intent on finding a solution, let me save you the trouble. It's simple, really. Get yourself a Canadian TV guide and go online any time hockey is being played. But watch your ass between periods.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
O.K, maybe the actual people involved aren't any specific nationality, or hold any grudges agianst any particuliar country. I shouldn't have stated bigotry as a possible conspiracy point, I was just waving the flames of ridicoulous conspiracy theories.

Why not just set up in Nevada? Gamblings legal, rent is cheap (Outside Las Vegas). Not really a conspiracy, probably to avoid taxes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Online Gambling is NOT NOT NOT legal in the US, and Nevada has specifically been very against it.

If I raised 63o on a whim and made quads, I might raise it the next time I got is as well. GAMBOOOL!!! and what not.

[PhatTBoll]

You got a lot of the usual stereotypes in there, but I would have liked to see a polar bear reference. Funny post.

[Crabs]

[ QUOTE ]
"As a Canadian..."


[/ QUOTE ]

I truly pity you... Eh?

[Jaran]

Nice, but what if you're a hockey fan down here /images/graemlins/grin.gif?

-Jaran

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Your money leaves the US and ends up in Quebec and Holland, thats where PartyPoker is stationed. I looked up the IP adress for PartyPoker and its in Quebec (note that the French Canadians hate Americans)


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's controlled by Michael Moore. Or Col. Sanders. Wait, are they the same person???

I'll be ensconsed in my bomb shelter.

[sfer]

Last week I straddled UTG with sthief09 UTG+1. He raised, 2 coldcallers, I call with 85o. Flop is 88x. I took a largish pot. Live 3/6; it was rigged.

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
(note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless my geography is way off, this sounds like a serious case of self loathing since French Canadians live in North AMERICA.

[Greg J]

Why would you ever straddle? EVER??

Am i missing something?

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen people who could check,instead fold, for no apparent reason, then the guy after them bets. If the order was changed I'd understand it.

I don't think its someone hacking the software, but one thing is for sure:

Your money leaves the US and ends up in Quebec and Holland, thats where PartyPoker is stationed. I looked up the IP adress for PartyPoker and its in Quebec (note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I'm actually dumber than I already was before reading this post. Imagine that!

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(note that the French Canadians hate Americans)

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless my geography is way off, this sounds like a serious case of self loathing since French Canadians live in North AMERICA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay let's get soemthing straight you pinko commie American hater. American equals from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Canadians are pussy socialists who are scared to fight. And the people from them "other" countries south of the border... well i wont even talk abotu them.

My forefathers didnt come over in the Mayflower and them kick the hell out of the communists in the American revolution so that people like you could stay at home getting welfare checks just so you can be liberal homosexuals!

(*See Greg remove tounge from cheek*)

[B Dids]

GAMBOOL!!!!!!!!!1

[SeppDeitrich]

this reminds me of a hand i played on stars a while back. I started the hand with AA, and capped pre flop with 2 opponents. the flop came down 55x, both of my oponents had came in for cap with q5o, and chopped the pot at my expense. Foolishly i didn't beleive either player would be in there with a 5 so i called them all the way.

[sfer]

Johnny Boom Boom was the BB. Guaranteed dead money. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

...or, I had a feeling?

Gambool.

[bisonbison]

This thread is pretty dumb.

[bdk3clash]

You straddle good.

[Sloats]

Started off dumb, got downright bizarre.



And I am a Leary supporter.



Dennis Leary, that is.


I say we invade Canada before they attack us.






OK, maybe that was funny in the 90s.





And Canadiens (notice the e) hate Americans, especially peewee hockey teams from Boston.

[RollaJ]

All the party hackers I know play 10-20 and 15-30 and mid size multis. We dont play low limits, we dont play the highest games either, we are all just trying to fit in

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is pretty dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't let our four year old use the word dumb...its a bad word.


Edit: Although the other day her face practically turned red as she yelled: I didn't say dumb!!! I said dummie!!!!!!

I'm thinking of enrolling her in law school.

--Zetack

[bisonbison]

We don't let our four year old use the word dumb...its a bad word.

Alright, alright. This thread is pretty shitty.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
We don't let our four year old use the word dumb...its a bad word.

Alright, alright. This thread is pretty shitty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah...much better.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
We don't let our four year old use the word dumb...its a bad word.

Alright, alright. This thread is pretty shitty.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD (so far)

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, alright. This thread is pretty shitty.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am genuinely sorry I started it.

[Uppercut]

Maybe the maniac likes to play 63 because it matches his IQ. Anyone ever think of that? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[vulturesrow]

Its all those newfangled pattern mappers out there.

[imitation]

I just won a $5 buy in SnG buy pushing all in with every single hand, definitely party is haxed.

[SnakeRat]

Imitation are you being sarcastic?

[HajiShirazu]

The servers are in quebec so that they can be monitored by the Kahnawakee Gaming Commission.

[imitation]

Yes, but seriously I did just win an SnG doing that, I tripled up on the first hand and kept pushing with crap until I won, I was bored and felt like venting after some bad beats.