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View Full Version : How Tourists Can Beat Up on the Las Vegas Pros-Par


01-19-2002, 09:38 PM
I played a little in Las Vegas over the New Years holiday ($30-$60 HE at the Bellagio) and the experience got me thinking. Specifically about how a visiting player can beat up on the local professionals.


Here are my thoughts. (Note:this is an example of what S/M refer to a third level thinking, p. 231, HEFAP 21st Century Edition),


These apply mostly to the brown chip games, probably to the yellow chip games, and not very much to the low limit games.


The first thing to realize is the dynamic of the Bellagio brown chip game. The typical game is 3 to 4 Las Vegas professionals and 6 or 7 "tourists" of varying experience and skill. With only one place to play at these limits in Las Vegas, the LV professionals are compressed into the 2 or 3 brown chip tables at the Bellagio. They play against each other everyday and get their money mostly from the "tourists" not from each other.


This dynamic inlfuences the style of play adopted by the Las Vegas professional. For example:


I observed many times that once the pot became heads up between two of the Las Vegas professionals they reverted to straight forward play.


By straight forward play I mean, the LV professional with a made hand bet. If the other LV professional had a draw he check/called and when he made his hand he bet out. Once this occurred, the other LV professional folded.


By straight forward play, I also mean that betting scare cards on the turn, raising with position and a draw on the turn to extract an extra bet if you make your hand, steal raising on the river, semi-bluff betting a draw on the flop, turn, and river, and similar bread and butter, L.A. brown chip moves were never used once the pot became heads up between the LV professionals.


I also observed three times (over about 10 hours of play) a sort of tacit verbal collusion between the different LV professionals once the pot became heads up. (Note: I have played the Bellagio $30-$60 about a dozen times over 5 or 6 Las Vegas trips and observed similar behavior or slight variations from different combinations of LV professionals at the Bellagio).


For instance, the pot becomes heads up on the flop or turn and one LV professional bets. The other LV professional with a made hand, e.g. top pair with a mediocre kicker, considering a call will say something like, "your hand is that good huh?" The other LV professional responds, "I can't lose every hand," and the first LV professional mucks his hand.


Once the pot becomes heads up between two LV professionals they stop "playing" and are content to win their "fair share."


The second thing to realize is how the Las Vegas professsionals are beating the tourists. Their main tool is pre-flop hand selection and fit or fold play. They play fewer hands pre-flop and bet or check-raise made hands on the flop and check-call draws. Of course, they will bet and raise with super draws (a pair and the nut flush draw, a straight flush draw, a pair and an open ended straight draw, etc.) but they primarily play ABC.


Note: For an excellent article on this subject read Jim Brier's recent Cardplayer article on short-handed play http://www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=12285


The Las Vegas professionals' bread and butter hands are getting paid when they have a big pair and someone flops an underpair, and playing

against dominated hands, e.g. AK vs. KQ, AK vs. AQ, AJ vs. J10 etc.


This differs substantially from L.A. at the same limits because you are playing against the same players day after day and the play is frequently short handed.


In L.A., the winning players get much more of their money from strategy and tactics tailored and targeted to specific players. Since the "opposition" in L.V. changes everyday, there is much less opportunity for this type of targeted play.


In L.A., the winning players are also getting much more of their money from short handed play (including defending or not chopping the blinds) where pre-flop hand selection is less important and ABC play is a recipe for financial disaster.


The third thing to realize is the problem faced by the Las Vegas professionals. They are constantly faced with making borderline decsions against players who they know nothing about.


Example: You are heads up on the flop, have Ace-big suited, and flop one face card which doesn't pair you and trash. You bet the flop and get called. A brick comes on the turn. Should you bet, check/call, or check/fold?


Unlike in L.A., where the winning players face people whose games they have booked, the Las Vegas professionals are constantly forced to make

tricky decisions against strangers.


Once you realize these three things, (1) that the Bellagio professionals are playing with each other everyday and making a living off the tourists, (2) that the Bellagio professionals generate most of their profit from getting paid off with their big pairs and from situations where the other player has a dominated hand and they both pair up on the flop, and (3) that the Bellagio professionals are forced to make borderline decisions against total strangers, you can construct a plan.


As a tourist visiting the Bellagio for the weekend, a skilled player can adopt a "disguise" and exploit the situation with specific plays when they are heads up in pots with the Bellagio professionals.


There are multiple winning strategies, I'll detail one in Part 2 of this post.

01-19-2002, 10:28 PM

01-20-2002, 02:06 PM
You forgot one thing that when you decide to change the Vegas professional will also change. Because they see so many types of players and playing styles they are very adaptable. So what ever the Wcpp can tell you will be adapted to immedialty. If the game requires straight forward play they will do it. If the game requires some dancing they will accomodate. Have fun with your strategy.

01-20-2002, 05:33 PM
The idea is that they won't adapt immediately.


You start off playing into their predefined stereotypes and then make certain plays which force them into FTOP errors that are very costly e.g. folding a hand in a big pot when they are in the lead or not calling when they have a positive E.V. draw.


Of course, a skilled player, if they observe your play for an extended period of time, will change their categorization of you, but the premise is that a tourist visiting the Bellagio will only play for a short time over a couple of sesssions and can temporarily "beat up" on the Las Vegas professionals.

01-20-2002, 08:50 PM
WCPP,


I don't think a professional will fold a hand when they are in the lead, especially if the pot is big. Furthermore, they will not fold a draw when they have a positive EV. If you think professionals will do this, you are dreaming, because if they did this they would be broke eventually.


The better stragegy is to identify who the bad players are and play pots against them.

01-21-2002, 07:36 PM
Attempting to play hands intentionally against the best players at the table does not make sense. Make your money from the weak players...whether they call themselves professionals or not. It will normally only take about 30 minutes to have the weak and strong players identified.

01-22-2002, 08:08 PM
While I give you credit for at least thinking about how to beat the local pros, your logic is fundamentally flawed.


The Las Vegas Pros have seen it weekend after weekend, year after year. They play well and make very few mistakes and punish those who do make mistakes. Wannabees and somewhat successful LA players come to town every weekend of every year and most leave with less than they came with.


Regarding your thoughts on Collusion. Its more of a "professional courtesy" to play your hand straight forward and direct when you are heads-up in a hand with another pro (sometimes friend, or at least acquaintance) rather than deceptively, after all you play with these people every day and they could certainly make these plays back at you. The goal is not to get each others money, but to get the tourists money.