Bubble play review - What's your move? (LONG)

[Sheriff Fatman]

My last 15 Party SnG's have been among the most frustrating I have ever played. In that time I have amassed results as follows:

1st - 0
2nd - 1
3rd - 2
4th - 8
5th - 1
6th - 1
7th - 1
8th - 1

Much as I would like to claim bad luck for this, I know this isn't the sole cause. I've therefore posted a few (18) of the bubble hands from this run for review.

In each case I've summarised the situation as it stands when its your turn to act and for each scenario I'm interested in how you would play it.

I will post my decisions and results later. However, the key for me is to see whether my decisions are similar to others. In some cases I'm actually surprised by my own play after looking back in the histories and I already know that some of the decisions were poor ones.

Hopefully, this will be a useful thread for a number of people. However, after the run I've had I feel its time for a check-up!

In all cases, the stack sizes are before any blinds are posted and I've ignored the T notation for simplicity.

All are Party $50+5 SnGs.

Thanks in advance for responses. Feel free to tackle some or all of them. I'll try and summarise the responses when I post the results.

Sheriff

Hand 1
Stack sizes before blinds are 3501, 2454, 2160, 1885.
You have 2160 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are BB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - Folded around to SB (1885) who pushes.
What's your play?

Hand 2
Stack sizes before blinds are 3320, 3200, 2630, 850
You have 2630 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are UTG with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 3
Stack sizes before blinds are 3755, 3710, 1385, 1150.
You have 1385 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with J /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 4
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2726, 1520, 1334.
You have 2726 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Folded to you. SB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 5
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2660, 2205, 1555.
You have 1555 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) calls. Button and SB have folded.
What's your play?

Hand 6
Stack sizes before blinds are 3498, 3278, 2244, 980.
You have 2244 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - First to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

Hand 7
Stack sizes before blinds are 4671, 2709, 1800, 820.
You have 4671 (1st position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in BB with T /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - Folded to SB (3rd place) who min raises to 600.
What's your play?

Hand 8
Stack sizes before blinds are 3020, 2700, 2400, 1880.
You have 1880 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) raises to 1000. Button folds. BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 9
Stack sizes before blinds are 3920, 2834, 1790, 1456.
You have 1456 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are on Button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 10
Stack sizes before blinds are 3428, 2860, 2598, 1114
You have 1114 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - UTG (3rd place) has pushed.
What's your play?

Hand 11
Stack sizes before blinds are 5173, 3232, 930, 665.
You have 665 (4th position).
Blinds are 100/200
You are UTG with A /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 2nd place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 12
Stack sizes before blinds are 3670, 2476, 2084, 1770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 13
Stack sizes before blinds are 3770, 3026, 2654, 550.
You have 550 (4th position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are on UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. All players have you covered.
What's your play?

Hand 14
Stack sizes before blinds are 4172, 2520, 2270, 1038.
You have 1038 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 15
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2476, 2334, 770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in BB with 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Short stack has pushed on Button. SB folds. What's your play?

Hand 16
Stack sizes before blinds are 2950, 2400, 2380, 2270.
You have 2380 (3rd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 17
Stack sizes before blinds are 3728, 3048, 1944, 1280.
You have 1944 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (4th place) has pushed. BB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 18
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2360, 2055, 2005.
You have 2005 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - Folded to you. BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

[TylerD]

Hi Sheriff,

This should be an interesting thread - kind of like the Sklansky hand quizzes. Bubble play and HU are, IMO, the most critical part of an SNG so this should be interesting.

Hand 1:
Tough one - I'd fold and wait to be aggressor.

Hand2:
Another tough one - but I'd fold.

Hand 3:
These aren't easy are they - I'd fold, although JTs is a nice hand, when its run hot and cold it isn't so great.

Hand 4:
All-in

Hand 5:
Bit confused about the hand but assuming you are BB, I'd check.

Hand 6:
Raise 2.5 - 3BB

Hand 7:
Call

Hand 8:
All-in

Hand 9:
All-in

Hand 10:
Ewk - call, though.

Hand 11:
Easy all-in.

Hand 12:
Fold

Hand 13:
All-in, a better than average hand and the other stacks are much larger than yours.

Hand 14:
You might need to edit this hand - i don't understand

Hand 15:
Easy call.

Hand 16:
Fold - its junk

Hand 17:
You finally get a (reasonable) hand and its in a crap spot - i'd call all-in though.

Hand 18:
Easy all-in

(usual caveat: all IMO)

I'm gonna add one to the list if you don't mind.

Hand 19
PokerStars $27 Turbo SnG
Stack sizes before blinds (approximate): UTG (Me) 4000, UTG+1 1200, SB 1000 and BB 8000. Blinds 200/400
I raise to 1200 with AK UTG+1 folds as does SB, BB pushes.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Thanks Tyler

You are correct about Hand 5, I'm BB not button as stated.

Sheriff

[Sheriff Fatman]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 14:
You might need to edit this hand - i don't understand

[/ QUOTE ]

As you might have guessed I was copying and pasting the format. Must have had a brainstorm here!

Correct version

Hand 14
Stack sizes before blinds are 4172, 2520, 2270, 1038.
You have 1038 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. Button (chip leader) calls. BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

[Sheriff Fatman]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 19
PokerStars $27 Turbo SnG
Stack sizes before blinds (approximate): UTG (Me) 4000, UTG+1 1200, SB 1000 and BB 8000. Blinds 200/400
I raise to 1200 with AK UTG+1 folds as does SB, BB pushes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it but I have to fold here. Too high a chance of a coin-flip against the big stack and you're still 2nd place.

[woodguy]

Sherriff,
I'm not the burning bush, but I've been doing pretty good in the $50+5 at party lately, so here goes....

Hand 1 -ignore that your soooted, your kicker is no good, fold

Hand 2 -tough one, I gotta push here, 88 too good to lay
down 4 handed, and with any raise you have to push on the flop so push PF

Hand 3 - I hate seeing J10 at this stage of the tourney, they look good, but if you get called, you are probably a dog, (you are a dog to Q2o) curse you didn't get this hand in big multiway pot and fold

Hand 4 - I think you mean BB is chip leader. You are not as desperate as 3rd and 4th place and the large blinds are coming their way. Wait and fold. (Although I wouldn't curse you for pushing, but why risk the tourney at this point with the small stacks about to get the blinds?)

Hand 5 - FOLD, this hand sucks

Hand 6 - Fold, I like K9 heads up, but your are UTG here and the short stack is under way more pressure than you. You have enough chips to find a better spot

Hand 7- Fold, this hand is no good and you have lots of chips to wait for a better hand. You don't have to defend every blind.

Hand 8- small pp's are usually good here, but remember the gap concept and fold. If you had 750 chips less I would push.

Hand 9- I push here. You have to make a move and your stack is big enough that your opponets can't make an auto-call

Hand 10- Push. You're 4th and the blinds are going to kill you soon. Gap tells us to fold, but with your chips I think you have to go.

Hand 11 - Easy push. You have no chips and an A.

Hand 12- tough one again. Why risk the tourney? BB may be on auto call as his blind was 25% of his stack. A good case can be made for either decision.

Hand 13 - Push. You stack dictates that you go all in here.

Hand 14 - Confused here, you say that you AND the BB are 4th place. Either way, I like a push here with KT in the sb.

Hand 15 - I cannot bring myself to ever call an all in with 22 (unless its heads up, and even then I squirm) You are in 2nd and can afford to wait. Fold.

Hand 16 - Q9o is ok in big multiway pot, I hate it here, fold.

Hand 17 - With 4th place pushing, I'd leave it to the big stacks to take him on. A10 is a good hand 4 handed, but I'm not sure I'd call an all in with it

Hand 18 - Push. Good hand, and you are first in.

Based on your posting I'm going out on a limb and saying that you are getting into "Head's up mode" too early and could be overvaluing your hands when its 4 handed.
Patience and selective aggressiion is key 4 handed.
I usually play pretty tight until its 3 handed then "release the hounds" and shoot for 1st.
When you are the small stack, you gotta make plays, but when you have the chips, you have the luxury of picking your spots and not panicing.

Hope I wasn't too far off in my comments, feel free to lambast me for any mistakes.

regards,
woodguy

[woodguy]

Thought he raised in my original post, so its a call and not a fold.

regards,
woodguy

[woodguy]

With the button calling, you may just want to complete here, but I still don't hate pushing.
Probably a good place for a stop and go.

regards,
woodguy

[durron597]

This is what I would do, for whatever my opinion is worth...

Hand 1 - Tough, but fold without a read.
Hand 2 - I push here, tough though.
Hand 3 - As another poster said, this is an awful hand to get now, you want to play it... but you really can't. Hard fold.
Hand 4 - Easy push.
Hand 5 - Check, definitely; probably push on any flop without AKQ (unless suited or straight potential etc.).
Hand 6 - Push.
Hand 7 - Call, and bet any flop.
Hand 8 - Hard decision, I probably push here.
Hand 9 - Push.
Hand 10 - Ewww.... I guess call. If you have a bigger stack I probably fold here, remember we're playing for first right?
Hand 11 - Easy push. You have no chips and hey! You have an ace!
Hand 12 - Another tough hand. I say read dependant (how much do the blinds gamble?) Push on a tight table, fold on an aggressive one.
Hand 13 - Push. Odds of you getting a better hand on the next one are small enough that you have to push.
Hand 14 - Push. The pot is huge and you have a good hand; well... how aggressive is the chipleader? I might fold if he's been playing tight.
Hand 15 - Easy call. Pot is laying you almost 6:1.
Hand 16 - Fold.
Hand 17 - Push. Another poster said call, you don't want this multiway if you can; get the rest of your chips in to try to get the BB to fold.
Hand 18 - Um, push? If you get called and lose, it was destiny...

[Sheriff Fatman]

This is more intriguing than I first thought. 3 responses so far and only 8 out of 18 hands where there's a clear consensus.

Roll up, roll up, roll up - come take the bubble challenge, everyone!!!

[AtlBrvs4Life]

I haven't looked at the others yet, but here is what I would do for each.

1. fold
2.push
3. push
4. push
5. fold
6. fold
7. fold
8. push
9. push
10. push
11. push
12. fold
13. push
14. push
15. easy easy easy call
16. fold
17. push
18. push

[durron597]

On second thought I'm not sure about hand 6. I would say hand 6 and hand 10 are the toughest hands to play here. Anyone agree?

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
My last 15 Party SnG's have been among the most frustrating I have ever played. In that time I have amassed results as follows:

1st - 0
2nd - 1
3rd - 2
4th - 8
5th - 1
6th - 1
7th - 1
8th - 1

Much as I would like to claim bad luck for this, I know this isn't the sole cause. I've therefore posted a few (18) of the bubble hands from this run for review.

In each case I've summarised the situation as it stands when its your turn to act and for each scenario I'm interested in how you would play it.

I will post my decisions and results later. However, the key for me is to see whether my decisions are similar to others. In some cases I'm actually surprised by my own play after looking back in the histories and I already know that some of the decisions were poor ones.

Hopefully, this will be a useful thread for a number of people. However, after the run I've had I feel its time for a check-up!

In all cases, the stack sizes are before any blinds are posted and I've ignored the T notation for simplicity.

All are Party $50+5 SnGs.

Thanks in advance for responses. Feel free to tackle some or all of them. I'll try and summarise the responses when I post the results.

Sheriff

Hand 1
Stack sizes before blinds are 3501, 2454, 2160, 1885.
You have 2160 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are BB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - Folded around to SB (1885) who pushes.
What's your play?

Hand 2
Stack sizes before blinds are 3320, 3200, 2630, 850
You have 2630 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are UTG with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 3
Stack sizes before blinds are 3755, 3710, 1385, 1150.
You have 1385 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with J /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 4
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2726, 1520, 1334.
You have 2726 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Folded to you. SB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 5
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2660, 2205, 1555.
You have 1555 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) calls. Button and SB have folded.
What's your play?

Hand 6
Stack sizes before blinds are 3498, 3278, 2244, 980.
You have 2244 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - First to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

Hand 7
Stack sizes before blinds are 4671, 2709, 1800, 820.
You have 4671 (1st position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in BB with T /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - Folded to SB (3rd place) who min raises to 600.
What's your play?

Hand 8
Stack sizes before blinds are 3020, 2700, 2400, 1880.
You have 1880 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) raises to 1000. Button folds. BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 9
Stack sizes before blinds are 3920, 2834, 1790, 1456.
You have 1456 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are on Button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 10
Stack sizes before blinds are 3428, 2860, 2598, 1114
You have 1114 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - UTG (3rd place) has pushed.
What's your play?

Hand 11
Stack sizes before blinds are 5173, 3232, 930, 665.
You have 665 (4th position).
Blinds are 100/200
You are UTG with A /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 2nd place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 12
Stack sizes before blinds are 3670, 2476, 2084, 1770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?

Hand 13
Stack sizes before blinds are 3770, 3026, 2654, 550.
You have 550 (4th position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are on UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. All players have you covered.
What's your play?

Hand 14
Stack sizes before blinds are 4172, 2520, 2270, 1038.
You have 1038 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 15
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2476, 2334, 770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in BB with 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Short stack has pushed on Button. SB folds. What's your play?

Hand 16
Stack sizes before blinds are 2950, 2400, 2380, 2270.
You have 2380 (3rd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

Hand 17
Stack sizes before blinds are 3728, 3048, 1944, 1280.
You have 1944 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (4th place) has pushed. BB is chip leader.
What's your play?

Hand 18
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2360, 2055, 2005.
You have 2005 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - Folded to you. BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: Easy fold
Hand 2: Depends alot on table character. If a min rs would get them to fold without a hand i do that. If they're abit looser callers but not crazy, i push.
Hand 3: Depends alot on chip leader but i lean toward fold rather than allin. If he's fairly tight then i push, but if he's at all good then its risky.
Hand 4: Depends on bigstack. CAll (if avg), minraise(if he can fold), push (if really loose), are all options
Hand 5: Clear fold
Hand 6: Clear fold
Hand 7: probably call. Depending his play, put him all-in as he wants to stay in 3rd
Hand 8: Close call. All-in probably best, fold ok but a bit weak but depends on read.
Hand 9: All-in
Hand 10: tough choice. Probably call, but not happy about it.
Hand 11: tough spot. Probably call then push no matter what the flop. but more likely to fold if everyone's coming in.
Hand 12: All in
Hand 13: Call then push any flop
Hand 14: probably Push , maybe fold depending on read
Hand 15: easy call with any 2 cards
Hand 16: easy fold
Hand 17: pushallin. folding is ok is bigstack is a bit loose callr.
Hand 18: Easy allin

-Greg

[Sheriff Fatman]

Right then, I've given it 24hours for responses (thanks all) so now to compare and contrast! Surprisingly few hands had a consensus view so hopefully it there might be some more debate to squeeze out of this.

I've summarised the info again for ease of reference.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1
Stack sizes before blinds are 3501, 2454, 2160, 1885.
You have 2160 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are BB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - Folded around to SB (1885) who pushes.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

All 5 responses were to fold, which surprised me a little as this seems an obvious thing for short stack to do. I figured I had the best hand here and called to try and knock him out. He showed K /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and I lost to a 6 on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
Stack sizes before blinds are 3320, 3200, 2630, 850
You have 2630 (3rd position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are UTG with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is chip leader.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

3 voted for pushing, 1 said fold, 1 said min-raise or push depending on read.
I raised to T1000 and would have folded to pushes from either of the 2 chip leaders. I won the pot uncontested.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3
Stack sizes before blinds are 3755, 3710, 1385, 1150.
You have 1385 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with J /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

4 votes for folding, 1 for pushing.
I pushed, BB called with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I flopped a Jack but lost to an ace on the river.
At the time I figured it was a reasonable chance to put some daylight between short stack and myself. Not too sure now.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2726, 1520, 1334.
You have 2726 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Folded to you. SB is chip leader.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

3 votes for pushing, 1 for folding, 1 for call/min-raise/fold depending on reads.
I folded, not wanting to tangle with the only stack that could bust me.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 5
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2660, 2205, 1555.
You have 1555 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in BB with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) calls. Button and SB have folded.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

3 said check, 2 said fold which is probably because I mistakenly said I was on the button, not in BB, in my original post.

I was interested to see if anyone pushed pre-flop to try and take it down. No-one did.
I checked this in order to see a flop and pushed when the flop came 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. No-one called.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 6
Stack sizes before blinds are 3498, 3278, 2244, 980.
You have 2244 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - First to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

3 said fold, 1 said push, 1 said raise 2.5-3BB.
I folded, SB pushed and won the pot uncontested.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 7
Stack sizes before blinds are 4671, 2709, 1800, 820.
You have 4671 (1st position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in BB with T /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - Folded to SB (3rd place) who min raises to 600.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

2 votes for fold, 2 for call and see, 2 for call-bet any flop. I call and was delighted to see a flop of 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I pushed, SB called with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. The trip 6's held up.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 8
Stack sizes before blinds are 3020, 2700, 2400, 1880.
You have 1880 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in SB with 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - UTG (2nd place) raises to 1000. Button folds. BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

4 said push, 1 said fold.
I pushed. UTG called with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I lost to a flopped Queen.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 9
Stack sizes before blinds are 3920, 2834, 1790, 1456.
You have 1456 (4th position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are on Button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Action - UTG has folded. SB is chip leader, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone said push. I did and lost to BB's pocket 5's which won unimproved.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 10
Stack sizes before blinds are 3428, 2860, 2598, 1114
You have 1114 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are on Button with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - UTG (3rd place) has pushed.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

3 votes for calling, 2 for pushing.
I called all-in. BB then also called. UTG had A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, BB had J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif. The Jacks held up. The 6's would have beaten UTG's hand but I'd not counted on another caller.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 11
Stack sizes before blinds are 5173, 3232, 930, 665.
You have 665 (4th position).
Blinds are 100/200
You are UTG with A /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 2nd place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

4 votes for pushing, 1 for call-push any flop.
I folded this hand, expecting button to make a play for the pot. He min-raised to T400 and won uncontested.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 12
Stack sizes before blinds are 3670, 2476, 2084, 1770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is 4th place, BB is 3rd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

2 said fold, 1 said push, the other two were multiple responses dependent on the table conditions.
I pushed and won uncontested. Being up against 2 smaller stacks was the key factor in my decision.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 13
Stack sizes before blinds are 3770, 3026, 2654, 550.
You have 550 (4th position).
Blinds are 200/400
You are on UTG with K /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - 1st to act. All players have you covered.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

4 said push, 1 said call-push.
I pushed. Button called, SB then raised all-in at which point button promptly folded. Button had K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif and (unsurprisingly) won. I was unlucky to run into them but had little choice given my stack and the blinds.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 14
Stack sizes before blinds are 4172, 2520, 2270, 1038.
You have 1038 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif .
Action - UTG has folded. Button (chip leader) calls. BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

Another hand where I misposted the situation in the original post.
4 votes for pushing.
I called here, thinking that Button's call was very suspicious. BB then checked along. I pushed on a flop of 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Button called with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif but my Kings held up.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 15
Stack sizes before blinds are 4420, 2476, 2334, 770.
You have 2476 (2nd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are in BB with 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Action - Short stack has pushed on Button. SB folds. What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

4 votes for calling (most saying easy call), 1 said fold.
A call here was a no-brainer for me given the odds. Button showed A /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
The flop came 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and let me get my hopes up. Unfortunately the turn and river of K /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif were like daggers through the heart.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 16
Stack sizes before blinds are 2950, 2400, 2380, 2270.
You have 2380 (3rd position).
Blinds are 250/500
You are UTG with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - 1st to act. SB is chip leader, BB is 4th place.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone said fold and probably wondered why I'd posted this hand. I was intrigued as to whether anyone suggested raising/pushing to try and establish a chip lead. All stacks were fairly even so there was no obvious 'bully' at this stage and I figured the game would tighten up.
I thought about it briefly, and then folded, as did everyone else which led me to wonder whether this was an opportunity missed.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 17
Stack sizes before blinds are 3728, 3048, 1944, 1280.
You have 1944 (3rd position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Action - UTG (4th place) has pushed. BB is chip leader.
What's your play?


[/ QUOTE ]

4 said push, 1 said fold.
I pushed, UTG showed A /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Neither of us got help from the board and I lost.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 18
Stack sizes before blinds are 3580, 2360, 2055, 2005.
You have 2005 (4th position).
Blinds are 150/300
You are in SB with A /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Action - Folded to you. BB is 2nd place.
What's your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

All said push. I pushed and lost to 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif, the board giving him a set and then a full-house just to finish off the job!

Conclusion - generally speaking my play wasn't wildly different from the suggestions made, with one or two exceptions. I'd appreciate any further comments anyone might have but its at least re-assured me a little that my decisions weren't consistently bad.

Its certainly been a useful exercise for me getting some feedback on these hands. Hope others get some use out of it too.

Sheriff

[Pitcher]

Hi Fatman,

Here goes (I have not looked at the results or any other posts)

Hand 1 - Fold without specific read (all in IS suspicious, so consider calling if attacking player is a maniac) In general, A-5 is way too risky to play in this situation. Look for a better opportunity where you can push (perhaps against a very tight BB, if such a player was on the table)

Hand 2 - Push - no question with 4 way action. You would just be unlucky to run into a bigger PP. Hopefully, no one wants a coin flip (leaving you still with a small edge)

Hand 3 - Push - blinds are high, you are getting down to the push with any high suited connectors territory.... Flexible hand. If called, this hand has good flush and st8 chances

Hand 4 - Raise to 1250. 2.5 x big bet should be enough to get the pot. If this player (assuming you meant BB was the chip leader) plays back at you or goes all in I would likely call depending on a specific read. Obviously, the 7 kicker is borderline, so it would depend on my opponent.

Hand 5 - check, then check/fold unless you hit an 8 without a big overcard. Likely hands include A - weak or K - weak or big hand. So, no A, no K and you hit an 8 on the flop, I push. If you are trapped, lol

Hand 6 - Really tough here. Depends on the table, but tend to fold. Pretty much push / fold depending on opponents

Hand 7 - Unless you know this player would only min-raise with a big PP (80+ % sure....in other words a very strong read) I would re-raise all in with any two cards. These are suited and distantly connected, so it makes the decision even easier. This play is a must in my opinion. If he calls and you loose you still have 2800 chips and a great shot at the money and any position 1-3.

Hand 8 - Probable fold. With the blinds that high a min raise is a "real" raise. Not sure I want a coinflip (if you push). Also, the BB hasn't acted. What if the BB has a big hand? Now you are a big underdog. One option is the stop and go... call and see if littles come out, if so push, otherwise fold. Now you are in a bad spot if you lose because the blinds are so high. You are in all in territory immediately on your next BB.

Hand 9 - Push

Hand 10 - Another tough one. Really depends on read, but I am leaning toward calling. UTG is a great position here to push....so he could have a pretty weak holding....especially with the need to steal chips at this point.

Hand 11 - Push

Hand 12 - Tough one, but push

Hand 13 - Push probably. Only other option is all in on the BB, waiting for a better hand. This is close, but I tend to say push even though I don't like the 2. Note that I would not call with this hand unless I was in the BB in this situation

Hand 14 - I am assuming you are on the button. I push

Hand 15 - Only 270 to call....call no problem

Hand 16 - Depends on the table. Push against a tight table, fold otherwise (lean toward fold)

Hand 17 - Read dependent, very close. If this were AJ, I would nearly always call....A10...very close, with slight lean toward calling. So many players push in this situation with Ax or Kx. You dominate most of those hands.

Hand 18 - Push

[allenciox]

ok, here are my answers, for what they are worth, I came up with them before reading the responses.

1. fold, you are either slightly ahead or a big dog, I'll wait for a better point to get all my chips in. Even though this now means I am the low dog and will have to become the aggressor.

2. push all-in. You have enough chips to scare everybody from calling without a tremendous hand.

3. push... I have seen too many situations where I folded here, and the sb folded, and then suddenly I am now in last place. The SB is unlikely to call you without a premium hand, and the BB is the one you have to beat out for fourth place anyway. I give him about a 60% chance of folding here --- and the other 40% of the time I have a decent chance of drawing a pair, straight or flush.

4. complete the BB. If I push, he is not threatened, he could call me on a wide range of hands without endangering himself. If an ace or a seven comes on the flop, I can bet that comfortably. Otherwise, I let him have the pot. (if an ace or seven comes out, I still play check-call, I'll let him bet my hand for me.)

5. call, and see what comes on the flop. I am really worried that he is trying to trap me with a big pair here. On the flop, I will either check-fold if I miss the flop, or check-call if I hit the flop.

6. fold, there is no reason to take any risks here when the low stack is so close to being out of the tourney. The BB will usually call an all-in from the SB anyway with most hands.

7. push... you are the big stack, use your muscle. The SB will not call unless they are suicidal or they have an incredible hand, when the low stack is so close to going out.

8. push, so the BB won't call too. You want to be heads-up on this one.

9. easy push. If the BB doesn't call, you are no longer in fourth position, and if he does, you have a fair chance of doubling up and practically guaranteeing you a finish in the top three.

10. call --- you HAVE to double up here to have a decent chance of making the money. You are probably a slight favorite in the hand --- if you lose, at least you went in with the advantage.

11. easy push... you most likely have the best hand here, and the BB is your target. If you fold here, you are the BB next hand, and your future is dismal.

12. on a tight table (which most tables are four-handed) I push. Otherwise fold.

13. fold... according to Sklansky, when you are short-stacked enough that you cannot get through the blinds, and the blinds are next, you need a "somewhat better" than average hand to enter the betting. An average hand is Q7o. This hand is K2s, only slightly better than average.

14. call. It's only 150 chips, and if you hit your K or T, you are unlikely to be dominated.

15. easy, easy call. You are getting pot odds of about 5:1 on your bet. There is no hand he can hold that gives him better than that (although an overpair is close).

16. fold this junk unless the table is very tight, and you have a tight image.

17. call. You want the low stack to be eliminated, right? So just call, and invite the BB to call as well. You want to maximize your chances of finishing in the money.

18.easy, easy push.

[slogger]

1. Although I think there is a reasonable chance that you're ahead, I'd fold. I'll probably get flamed for being weak-tight here, but I've made a lot more money with extreme patience and initial aggression than I have calling or re-raising bubble-time raisers. As always, I'd rather be the intial agressor when all or most of my chips are at risk.

2. Push - Big stack needs a very big hand to call you (although he may take a shot with a big Ace or KQ, which is fine with you) because you will cripple him if he loses. You have a good small pair and the likelihood that you're behind at this point is very small, desperate short stack may call with a wide range of hands, which could put you in great position going to the final 3.

3. Tough spot. Tough because shortstacked BB is likely to call you every time he/she's ahead of you, although it's hard to believe you'll be very far behind (relatively big cards, suited and connected). Without a read on the leader being ultra loose, I don't think you should be too worried about a call from the SB, as he'll likely not want to relinquish his lead by calling with a marginal holding (weak Kings and Queens, etc.). When in doubt where it's been folded to you in a shorthanded spot, pushing is almost never very wrong. I'd probably push.

4. Something to be said for pushing here (I assume you meant leader is BB, not SB), but staying out of the big stack's way can prove to be the best strategy when there are two very short stacks (relative to the blinds), as here. I think it's near 50/50 between pushing and folding. I'd fold and look for a chance to attack the smaller stacks in upcoming hands.

5. I assume you are BB. This is where my play would be very read dependent. If this guy was a compulsive limper, I'd most certainly push, but I think many average players try the limp as bait trick too often in the latter stages, even without big pairs (I see hands like AK down to even Axs). They think they're being tricky, but really they're just giving themselves an opportunity to go broke. I'd check here, without a read, and try to outplay the guy postflop if no A came.

6. The only tricky part about this hand is how close the short stack is to busting out. Without that factor, I push, but it's a significant issue here. When in doubt, aggression is still best, but folding cannot be terribly wrong here. I'd push.

Running out steam right now...maybe more later. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ethan]

I like this thread. Enough so that I'm actually going to stop lurking and post. (Hi all). I haven't read the other responses yet.

My experience is at the 20+2/30+3, and mostly the former, which I gather play a bit differently than the 50+5, but I'll give these a shot anyway. (I'm doing pretty well...maybe 45% ROI in the 20+2s, but the sample's too small for me to get too excited.) If anyone particularly disagrees with a choice I make (or the reasoning behind it) I'd appreciate feedback, looking through these there are a few I'm not sure on.

1 - fold. I hate calling and seeing I'm dominated here. Figure you're at best 60% or so against two cards in [K...5] but you'll get better spots.
2 - all-in. I'd feel way too weak-tight folding it, even though I'm uneasy with the all-in. SB will call you with hands you dominate (say, A5s) and my guess is the other big stacks will stay out of the way without JJ and up. This might be someplace where the 50+5s differ though (what they'd call you with), I'm curious. Anyone?
3 - fold and hope the SB steals the BB.
4 - all-in. (assuming BB is chip leader)
5 - check (assuming I'm BB). All-in on flop without A or K, unsure what I do with a Q out there.
6 - fold
7 - call, and see what comes. I assume I'm good on the flop with a pair here and push.
8 - push, and win your coin-flip.
9 - push. probably hope for folds, but push.
10 - call and hope it's a coin-flip. I'm unsure about this one.
11 - push. you're likely to get called by a weaker hand, and if you only get the one caller and win you're significantly ahead of BB.
12 - push. I'd probably fold at the 150/300 level and wait for a better spot.
13 - push. you can't hope your BB hand is better than this.
14 - push. With a few more chips, call and push when you hit a K or T
15 - call, getting 5-1 on my coinflip. I have odds to call against AA.
16 - fold. With stacks this close I'm willing to let 2 others race.
17 - push. There's a small chance he has you dominated, but on average I think you're significantly ahead here.
18 - push. I'm ambivalent as to wanting a call, but I think I'd prefer the BB's folding.

[DaffyDuck]

I find it interesting that everyone focused on addressing the individual hands and not the fact that you were 3rd or 4th in 11 of these 14 hands. You consistently only had like 3 to 6 BBs left at these junctures.

I would ask why you find yourself in this situation so often. Without any other information I cannot say, but I would guess is a lot of weak-tight play that allows you to survive to the bubble but most often without enough chips to do anything but roll the dice and push with crap before you get blinded out. This seems to be a bigger contributor to your bubbling out then the individual desperation decisions we are discussing here.

Bob