Hand to Talk About

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

I sat in a $30-$60 game a little earlier tonight and this interesting hand came up.

Before the flop, it was passed to me and I held Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif two off the button. I raised and the two players behind me called as well as the big blind.

The flop came T/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif3/images/graemlins/spade.gif. The player in the blind checked. I bet. The player behind me raised. The player on the button called the two bets cold. The player in the blind folded, and I called.

Fourth street was the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I checked. The on the flop raiser bet, but his bet put him all in for $40. The button called. I check raised making it $100 total, and the player on the button called.

The river was the T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. I bet and the player on the button folded.

All comments welcome.

Best wishes,
Mason

[ike]

Seems right to me. I guess the play you're wondering about is the turn checkraise? Since the button didn't raise the all-in to protect his hand you can assume he's drawing (especially with the flop coldcall this seems likely), so the raise is pretty automatic. I don't think theres any point in this hand where you can fold. The button is pretty clearly drawing and the raiser may have you beat but players play so erratically when near allin that without a specific read a fold feels very wrong.

[theriverwild]

i like the turn check raise to protect your hand, but if that ten didn't hit were u checking the river through or betting since his hand seems like an obvious draw anyways and would only call if he was drawing at the flush and made a pair of aces?

[Gotmilk]

nh mason :-) if the preflop raiser only had $29 left so the check raise would only be a completion , how do you play it ?

[Legian]

Hi. I'm new to posting here.

The turn and river seem pretty straight forward to me given both the short stack and seeing as how you played it on the flop.

But it's the flop that interests me. Why not reraise the shortstack then and there? He'd likely put the rest of his money in, allowing you to start working on a sidepot against the button.

Regards, Legian

[largos]

I think you lost the main pot.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
nh mason :-) if the preflop raiser only had $29 left so the check raise would only be a completion , how do you play it ?

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, congrats on your earlier tourney finish....

second, i think mason bets out if a c-r would just be a completion. i may be wrong here but thats what id be thinking. without the 29 though its a clear c-r imo against an almost certain draw: his money is going in anyway so no brainer...

-Barron

[Zele]

This must be a pretty tight game if QTo was worth a steal in CO-1.

The turn is a lot like being HU on the river, with the added urgency of getting the bet in to charge the (likely) flush draw. When the A drops, the nearly all-in player is somewhat more likely to bet than to call a bet from you, and additionally this allows you to charge the draw 2 bets (probably the more important factor). It's the kind of decision that seems so obvious when you think it out. I hope I would think of that in the heat of battle.

[mike l.]

openraising 2 off the button w/ QTo is just a little too loose and a little too aggressive for my tastes.

[potato]

.

[andyfox]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think theres any point in this hand where you can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Preflop!

[scalafab]

My question is:If the flop raiser wasn't all in,but he had a full bankroll would you still call the turn?

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
openraising 2 off the button w/ QTo is just a little too loose and a little too aggressive for my tastes.

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe Master Mason has broke away from the restriction of traditional tight-aggressive style and entered the higher poker realization of "Variably Accurately Selective - Adjusted Precisely Aggressive" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nykenny]

Hi Mason,

i like the turn c/r... but do you think it's possible to try c/r the river again, since the button might be on a busted draw and decide to bluff.

Kenny

[tipperdog]

This is an interesting hand, I hope you'll explain the thought process behind the turn CR. Frankly, I don't get it.

Play until the turn seems fairly straightforward. You're hoping to pick up the blinds with a marginal hand, but instead you get called in three spots. You can't be too thrilled with your situation...

...But then the flop hits you nicely and you're probably ahead. Betting is clearly warranted, and I'd have considered 3-betting the flop (though I probably would have flat called since I'd rather leave the on the flop raiser with a few chips for a potentially tough decision on the turn.)

The turn A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (overcard) isn't good for you. When it's bet ($40) and called to you, I'd have just called. What does your raise accomplish? Maybe you fold JJ. Maybe you fold KQ. But any ace or flush draw is likely to stick around, so it seems to me you're just adding money to the pot when you may have the worst of it (especially since the button's most likely flush draws include the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif, so he might now have top pair AND a flush draw). Yes, I'd have expected the button to raise if he held an ace, but am I sure enough to risk a 3-bet? Nope.

What's more, if the button 3-bets, you're faced with a very tough decision and may have to fold. Also, your turn raise probably doesn't buy a free showdown, since you're out of position and a river check might induce a bet, confronting you with a tough decision. Of course, it all becomes moot when perhaps the best card in the deck hits on the river, leaving you with almost certainly the best hand.

Still, I think call the turn partial bet and check-call the river (if a blank hits...of course you bet when the T hits) would have been the better line. But...what do I know? Look forward to hearing your thoughts more fully.

[DrSavage]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mason,

i like the turn c/r... but do you think it's possible to try c/r the river again, since the button might be on a busted draw and decide to bluff.

Kenny

[/ QUOTE ]

Side pot is too small for that.

[Franchise (TTT)]

I like the turn checkraise to build the side pot, since the button is likely drawing, and you want to see a showdown. Also, I'm guessing you didn't 3-bet the flop to set up this exact play.

I think it's a play that's easy to dissect afterward, but requires some creativity to use while playing.

[Dav123]

Considering the cutoff has only $40 left after his flop raise, I think a flop 3 bet is mandatory if you were willing to bet $60 on the side with the button even after a bad card peeled off. The small piece of extra info you get when the button just calls the all-in does not make up for the combination of the cutoff not going all in on the turn (a disaster when you have the best hand and the button would have folded) or the button raising the all-in with a hand you can beat.

It seems to me that the decision to 3 bet the flop or not comes down to:

Is extra info gained by what button does after cutoff goes all in on turn > chance that cutoff does not go all in on turn + chance that button raises the all-in with a hand you can beat ?

If I am missing an important aspect, please point it out.

[Clarkmeister]

Perfectly played.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (overcard) isn't good for you. When it's bet ($40) and called to you, I'd have just called. What does your raise accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no reason to think that the Button, who is now Mason's only opponent in the sidepot, has Mason beat. All the Buton has done is call, call, and call again. Mason's flopped top pair is good against an opponent who is doing nothing but calling. So, Mason's raise accomplishes the most basic goal- it wins money.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you fold JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad hand reading. JJ would have raised pre-flop and 3-bet the flop. Nobody has JJ>

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'd have expected the button to raise if he held an ace, but am I sure enough to risk a 3-bet? Nope.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just scared poker.

And, you can't say "the Button will call with a flush draw so why raise?". You raise because he has a possible flush draw and take his money while he's drawing.

[ QUOTE ]
What's more, if the button 3-bets, you're faced with a very tough decision and may have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The decision is easy. You would call a 3-bet on the turn in such a big pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, your turn raise probably doesn't buy a free showdown

[/ QUOTE ]

Mason shouldn't want a free showdown. His opponent would like one. But, Mason would be unwise to give him one.

[tipperdog]

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough reply (sincerely). You're clearly correct. With the button drawing, MM should charge him to the max. If the button hits on the river, so be it.

[elysium]

hi mason
the thing that really stands out about this hand, is the minimal amount of ev attained by playing the hand perfectly. of course, whenever that's the case, there is a minimal amount of certainty as to what constitutes perfect play.

the hand also lacks depth.

alright, anyway....you make what may look like to many as a semi-bluff check-raise on the turn. it's not. you're trying to fold out the better kicker using the A scare card.

mason, you don't have stellar conditions making the play correct. it's correct turn because of the unique dynamics arising when the CO goes all-in, and the button then indicates that he has a problem with his hand. it looks like QJh or KT. JT is also possible, and so is KQh. if he has QT or KT, he might fold. when he calls, he's drawing. he then busts.

the turn play to fold him out is fine. the fact that it didn't have any possibility of folding everyone out didn't in itself disqualify it as a semi-bluffing hand. it had more to do with the lack of strength in your hand combined with the low probability of folding out the button. even if you could have folded out the CO, i'm positive that had the CO not been all-in, you never would have check-raised, even if the CO checked, and the button betout. you saw an unusual opportunity unique to this very limited scenario; the effect of the all-in being called by the button.

the river; perfect. you hit trips. check-call the button. you are enough of a favorite here to check-raise. so why check-call? mason, i think that the button is very unlikey to raise, and that he will call with enough hands to give your bet value. i just think that this opponent will make what he thinks is a value bet, bluff of his busted, or fold here often enough to make the river check-call the slightly better play. i admit it mason. i hear you. i'm here. i see the situation. agreed. unquestionably, as tallied, the voters approve a betout on the river by a landslide. yet by a razor thin margin, i cast my longshot check-call vote.

whenever a hand evolves such as this one, finding me trailing and just hanging in there solely on the opportunities afforded by the unique complexion of the hand, unless i see a situation arise that gives my strong action correct pot odds to go ahead and give it a try because it is likely the only way i can win, in these just hanging in there type hands that have me backed against the wall firing out, i then startlingly go back against the ropes once the action that i was forced to take has accomplished what was intended. now i know that if i check the river here, this opponent isn't a favorite to bet. but there is something else that consider.

FWIW, this opponent is a favorite to assist me in future hands, if he calls and moves predictably. if i check, and he checks it down, showing down his weak A, i still come out ahead because not only will his actions have confirmed for me that he is in fact an opponent who will assist in tough spots in later hands, but also, when he sees the strength of my hand, he relizes that he does well to remain a reliable assistant, rather than an untimely folder or three-bettor. the fact that he didn't 3-bet the turn is non-problematic for your showdown because you likely have a hand that he would have called a 3-bet with, and he never feels that strong action would have gotten you out. of course, if you were semi-bluffing a double gut, or betout on the turn to fold, relying on an unimproved with inside, and rivered well, now you should bet, even after a roller coaster, because now you don't mind his folding so much. showing down and letting him see an inside draw or overs only that he failed to raise, may tend to irritate him toward a more aggressive posture, and ripple the left side passive texture of the immediate field protecting you on, well, on your left side. now if right gets angry, left intercepts, and so on. but a betting ripple....na, na. you don't want one of those.

o.k., o.k, i'm wrong. you should bet. the check-call could be costly. i am serious though about the liklihood of my check-calling, for the very reasons listed above. often mason, there's a lot of seriousness in humor. hey, i get along with my left. righty had it o'er us 300 yea's.

[tolbiny]

Hi ely,
I dont think that mason's check raise on the turn was a semi bluff. I believe that he put the button on a draw and that it was a value raise. He is building a side pot against the button.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Clark:

Does that include catching the ten on the river?

Best wishes,
Mason

[Punker]

I think the most interesting part of the hand is knowing on the flop that the person behind you is going all in, and how to use this knowledge to put the most pressure possible on the button. If this player had had $60 left after raising the flop, I would prefer reraising the flop, giving him the chance to make it two more full bets to the button. As his stack stood, I like the turn checkraise as it gives you the best chance to see if the button is on the ace high flush draw; when he doesn't raise the turn, it appears he is on spades, but without an ace, and you can max the pressure on him by checkraising.

[elysium]

hi tolb
actually, mason is attempting to fold out. value bets and raises, or value check-raises for that matter, will always have the bettor seeking a call. the river bet is an example of a value bet. in hold em, you must have a very good understanding about field and game conditions, and the type of action required and why, over and above the manual betting action, before you can understand why a player is making the type bet that you are observing. this prevents what is known in the hold em community as jumping to conclusions and erring. i'm sure you find it interesting that mason's check-raise isn't a value check-raise, even when mason's opponent calls with a weaker hand of any two. now, if mason's anticipation and desire for the call is approx. a 1 3/4 to 1 favored predominate emotion over the fear of fold or reraise, and mason's mood will remain in this above marginally good range WHEN CALLED, then it is a value check-raise. against a bluffer or tricky aggressive who is likely to 3-bet, mason would need to be on uncut grade 1 opium to be an emotional favorite in this spot with that hand, tolb. without very good cards, he needs very good chit.

no. mason doesn't know which of his opponents has the draw, or whether his second pair T with Q kicker is good. when the A comes flying out and mason check-raises, he is not check-raising that A for value. mason is using it as a scare card. remember, before betting out, mason's opponent also did a risk assessment of a possible mood swing. the line on him is something like 1 2/5 to 1. mason realizes that his opponent didn't do the math, and might be offering an emotional overlay on the mood scale. when the scare card hits, mason's getting 2 1/2 to 1 on a 50/50 fear factor fold. unfortunately, mason's opponent is a phen phen/ apathy station, and mason's check-raise fails to elevate his opponent's fright factor into the folding range. the apathy hurts us painfully on the turn, but on the river it provides us with much joy, look! the line on our expectation and desire for a call of our river bet is laying 2 to 1! that'll keep us well within the happy range, and friendly too. maybe making us an odds on favorite in a later hand, when we hit powerfully and go for a highly successful friendship check-raise.

who would have ever thought that a little apathy could cause so much joy? mason's getting 2 to 1 that his bet will not cause him to have a mood swing on the river. and that, by any definition tolb, is a true value bet.

[cero_z]

Hi Mason,
Well played IMO, but also very straightforward. I doubt that the river card gave you a winner, but it's nice to have a shot at it after recouping a few dollars from the side pot. I'm guessing you would've checked and folded, had the raiser not been all in on the turn. And after reviewing the hand, the raiser might have JTs, depending on what he thinks of your open-raise in that spot.

[mike l.]

"I doubt that the river card gave you a winner,"

he made trip tens on the river. why on earth wouldnt we expect that to be the winner??

[soda]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I thought I'd share anyway.

QTo in late middle position. If you want to mix up your play or the game is pretty good for raising here (too tight), then a raise would be OK, but otherwise I would suggest folding this in a full ring game.

The flop, bet and just call the raise sounds about right, because the guy is short. I would plan on a turn C/R if the button doesn't raise.

The turn, you could have laid 5:1 odds on the all-in player betting his $40. So, he does and the button just calls. I think you need to raise every time here. Your hand is best nearly always.

The river, you have a monster, but you are pretty close to positive that the button is on a draw. I know it stinks, but I think you need to check this river and hope he's dumb enough to take a stab.

Those are my thoughts on this hand, it certainly offers many paths to success.

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

soda

[mikelow]

Mason, how weak a hand do you need to raise preflop in the CO-1 seat? Maybe I don´t raise preflop enough.

Like your check-raise on the turn even though you may be behind.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Ike:

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think theres any point in this hand where you can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

While you're absolutely correct, this is part of the reason I put this hand up. Based on some of the books I have read, you would fold when that ace hit. Of course this is completely wrong.

best wishes,
Mason

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
"I doubt that the river card gave you a winner,"

he made trip tens on the river. why on earth wouldnt we expect that to be the winner??

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the river card gave him a winner either. However, that's because I thought Mason was winning the whole time. The flop gave him a winner.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi River:

Suppose the player on the button had KT. many weak players will make this call on the turn but then fold the river. If you think that your opponent is like this, you should bet again.

Also, some weak players will call with a hand that you can beat, such as JT, and then payoff on the river. Here again you should bet.

So while not necessarily the case, a river bet will often make sense.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Legian:

When raised and then cold called, my hand while still psossibly best, doesn't look that good. A very unfavorable turn card, such as a big spade may make me fold. On the other hand, a favorable turn card, can put me in a strong position. Since no one is going anywhere, it's frequently best in these spots, where your edge is small at best, to wait and see what the turn brings.

Best wishes,
Mason

[tolbiny]

Hi ely,
I am living in a box today, my world includes on and only one hand of poker. In this hand i get delt QTo in LP and everyone folds to me, Muhahahahahahaaaaaa. I love it when that happens, so now i try to pick up the blinds with a raise.
This time it goes not so well as i had hoped, and three players call me, two with position. I know nothing of these players, i dont know what their coldcalling standards are, i decide to call My goot friend Mason Malmuth, cause he has played in this game before, but Mason gives me no hints as to how they play. Now i am only left with general stereotypes of how they might play. sadly it looks as if i am behind at this point, but I am a believer, i have faith that i will be saved by the flop, that my senior prom wont be ruined when Kelly's father loses his job and she so generously returns the money she would have used for her prom dress to help her family.
and the flop rewards my fairth
T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
The BB checks to me, i bet, i get raised by the cutoff, and that is coldcalled by the button. The BB folds.
Now i have to put the two players on a range of hands. They have given me info, and i need to make an adjustment.
The cutoff has only 40$ left, which makes his range of hands fairly large since he may just have decided to put all of his chips in. Am i ahead or behind? I am probably ahead, but i am sure that he will bet on the turn so why put him all in now? i will wait because i know how the turn will play out, and that can be used to my advantage.

the button coldcalled two preflop, and then two more on the flop. What does he have? A resonabel guess would be two big suited cards (of spades) something like KJ, KQ, or AJ. ARe these the only hands that he could play this way? No. Is this a resonable guess for now giving us time later on to revise it if his action warrents? Yes, i believe so.
Now the turn brings an A.
I check, the cutoff bets his last 40$ predicatbly, and the button calls.
Now i still dont know if the cutoff has me beat or not, but i do know that i cannont get him to fold, and i cannot get any more money out of him.
who can i get to fold? The button.
Who can i get money out of? The button.
Right now i have the button tentativly on a draw. A draw he wants to see the next card as cheaply as possible with. I dont want him to do that so i raise. Of course i would like him to fold, but i am a realist. I Know his most likely actions are in this order.
1. call
2. raise

when he calls with his draw i win money from him since it will hit less than 50% of the time. This is why it is a value bet.
when he raises, well then he usually has me beat and he is now winning money off of me- and twice as much since it cost me two bets now. so i have to be sure that calling is much more likely than raising for him when i bet.
so i think that the turn chekcraise is a value bet, an opportuntity to put more money in the pot when i am ahead- i dont think it has very much fold equity, so when i make it i am going for my call equity.

[vulture]

Hi,

I think it's well played. The check raise makes him pay the max for possible draws and in the way you played it you got the perfect opportunity to take full profit of your all-in friend to let him pay. But maybe an even more interesting question is: would you have made a riverbet when let's say a 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif fell and what about a /images/graemlins/spade.gif?

[vulture]

And what abou a total blank?

[nepenthe]

Mason,

What do you do if the Button raises the turn all-in bet? Reraise or call?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi nepenthe:

Fold.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Zele:

While QT is usually worth a steal in this spot, in my mind it is the minimal hand to do it with. So the play is in general marginal at best.

part of the reason to raise here is that I still might have the best hand and if I don't, I can't be reraised. There also a chance, because he throws his last chips in that the bettor is the one on the draw and my raise will get the caller to fold.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi kenny:

If you read our books you should see that raising first in in this spot, while a minimal raising hand, is something that we have always recommended.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi scalafab:

Yes, because I could still have the best hand. Plus if I don't, I might draw out. Given the size of the pot and this combination, a call should be correct. But if it is bet and raised, then a fold is coming.

Best wishes,
Mason

[elysium]

hi tolb
and why it's important tolb, to assign every type of hand, one of the four major mood groups as a designated thinking point, to signal the organizational enzymes in our thought procession chain. this way, when we are happy for example, a safety valve is tripped blocking an ev negative line of thought, perhaps preventing us from calling when really we should be making an ev positive raise. if we put in a pre-flop cap in a good lively multi-way from UTG with AKs say, and the dealer coordinately rags the flop, none of suit, before betting, if this situation is correctly cataloged, the little safety valve now pops, and although we are very angry, if the UTG+1 bets out and everyone calls to CO who raises, we hear the warning, and quickly know not to check-reraise. instead, the safety whistle toots out the gloom code which is then picked up by the enzymes most likely to short circuit, and instead of a production a faulty white optimism enzymes, our minds release enzymes that organize an ev positive physiological kiss response, as we kiss our chips bye-bye.

'if it feels good, do it.', is applicable in hold em tolb, as long as the mood breaker on the warning whistle, activates the safety switch.

[Gabe]

I have always suspected that the reason so many players are a little too loose and a little too aggressive was because of your books. However, until I read this post, I had naturally assumed that dealing the faulty binding and arduous syntax had simply put them on tilt.

[King_J]

I think it is just genious played. I hope I can take advantage of this kinda posts in future hands. I also love the way easy and clear way you describe the hands you post.

Nice played.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi nyK...:

If the button is bluffing, what good does it to to raise him on the river?

best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi tipper:

If I can get a flush draw to put in more money when he's 4-to-1 to make a flush I'm doing pretty good. If I can a slightly better hand than mine to fold that's fine too.

Also, it's much less likely that this pot will go to three bets. Do you see why?

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dav:

Wouldn't you prefer to charge a flush draw two double size bets when he is a 4-to-1 dog than an extra bet -- note that two bets are already in there, when he is just a 2-to-1 dog.

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi elysium:

I thought I bet the river.

best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
and the dealer coordinately rags the flop, none of suit, before betting, if this situation is correctly cataloged, the little safety valve now pops, and although we are very angry, if the UTG+1 bets out and everyone calls to CO who raises, we hear the warning, and quickly know not to check-reraise. instead, the safety whistle toots out the gloom code which is then picked up by the enzymes most likely to short circuit, and instead of a production a faulty white optimism enzymes, our minds release enzymes that organize an ev positive physiological kiss response,

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely.

best wishes,
mason

[Dav123]

1) You get the same amount of money in either way. If you 3 bet the flop, the preflop raiser goes all in right there. You then bet the turn on the side.

2) If the flush card came you were planning on folding? On just calling? I think you would have played the turn the same way if the flush card came, therefore you lose the same amount either way if your opponent makes a flush on the turn.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi nyK...:

If the button is bluffing, what good does it to to raise him on the river?

best wishes,
mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mason,

i meant check raise again on river, he might have pulled a really desperate bluff, thus you gain one bet. since he would also bet many hands that you could beat (my guess), you wouldn't necessarily miss a bet often at all here.

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi kenny:

If you read our books you should see that raising first in in this spot, while a minimal raising hand, is something that we have always recommended.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Mason,

Of course I read your books and surely I also like to open raise here often a time myself, while realizing this is sometimes game dependent.

thanks,

Kenny

[elysium]

hi mason
caught you skimming. that was a hypothetical to tolb explaining why our mood and action are interrelated, but not necessarily working together harmoniously every time. tolb is slightly optimistically challenged.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
i meant check raise again on river

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you missed his point ( or made a typo). If you think he'll bluff at the pot with a busted draw you should check call , not check raise. A busted draw won't call the raise.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Soda:

[ QUOTE ]
QTo in late middle position. If you want to mix up your play or the game is pretty good for raising here (too tight), then a raise would be OK, but otherwise I would suggest folding this in a full ring game.


[/ QUOTE ]

What if a lot of players think you are an unimaginative player who plays too tight and always plays by the book?

best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Mike:

In general, I think the QT (unsuited) is right at the minimum.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Gamblor]

the best line I have ever read on this forum:

mason would need to be on uncut grade 1 opium to be an emotional favorite in this spot with that hand,

[AviD]

[ QUOTE ]
What if a lot of players think you are an unimaginative player who plays too tight and always plays by the book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so hard on yourself Mason! /images/graemlins/grin.gif


Nice turn CR against the draw to build up the sidepot after the other player went all-in and may have spiked an Ace on the turn...although I think you were likely ahead from the flop on.

I believe your's and David's books and one of David's videos advocate open raising with QJo in LP as an example, especially if the blinds are tight. QTo seems OK to do the same...assuming that either the blinds/plays behind you are tight and/or your image is such that those behind you will fold.

[soda]

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Hi Soda:

[ QUOTE ]
QTo in late middle position. If you want to mix up your play or the game is pretty good for raising here (too tight), then a raise would be OK, but otherwise I would suggest folding this in a full ring game.


[/ QUOTE ]

What if a lot of players think you are an unimaginative player who plays too tight and always plays by the book?

best wishes,
Mason

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Then, now would be a good time to raise with QTo to mix up your play.

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I can't imagine anyone would put that label on you, Mason.

soda

[Richard Berg]

That "raises" a question: is it possible for an honest author to NOT play by the book?