$30-$60 online hand

[Paluka]

Full 30/60 game.
Huge fish (sees upwards of 70% of the flops and rarely folds a pair postflop) limps in late position. Very strong player raises on the button. A solid player cold calls from the small blind and you call from the big blind with 9cTc.
Flop is Ks Th 6c.
Small blind checks, you decide to bet, fish calls, preflop raiser now raises, sb folds, you and the fish call.
Turn Kd and checked around.
River 2s.
You bet out.

Comments?

[samdash]

Would the PFR raise this flop with AQ or AJ for a free card/other reasons? If that is possible, perhaps you have a value bet for the fish to call. Any chance PFR will fold a better hand than yours if you bet the river and the fish calls? Would PFR get defensive on the turn with a hand like AA/QQ to be deceptive/avoid a checkraise?

[all luck no skill]

Hi Paluka,

I like you play. I would put the button on AQ.

You didn't mention whether or not the fish was passive or aggressive. He may have you beat, and if he raises I would strongly consider folding; he may have checked the king hoping to check-raise. Since he sees so many flops it's very difficult to put him on a hand, but overall I think your bet was good.

[mike l.]

betting the flop is correct to tie the fish in. you should 3 bet the flop to better define the button's hand.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
betting the flop is correct to tie the fish in. you should 3 bet the flop to better define the button's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate this play.

[astroglide]

i would have bet the turn too

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
i would have bet the turn too

[/ QUOTE ]

And fold to a raise assuming you have 2 outs at best now?

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate this play

[/ QUOTE ]

We agree. Why spend one (and maybe two) more small bets to "define his hand" when he fully intends to do just that on the turn? Because that's what we're talking about if you're raising for information.

Say you raise to "define his hand." He smooth calls. Hand defined? What about when he raises your bet on the turn after the aforementioned smooth call, and after the fishy dude is jammed up for another big bet?

Hand better defined?

P.S. There is, after all, a third party involved. You have second pair, crappy kicker. Nobody's folding a better hand. You can only hope the weak guy has a six (or a weaker ten), and the button was raising for a cheap river.

The river bet is slim value, but looks to be value.

[rory]

Hi Paluka,

Do you fold if it goes fish calls, preflop raiser raises?
Do you call if it goes fish folds, preflop raiser raises?

-rory

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
River 2s.
You bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't like the river bet too much. i think once the hand has unfolded this way, i would have just check and call a bet from anyone on the river.

my read (often off) is that fish could have anything, including a pair of 6 which u can beat, or a pair of Kings (remotely possible); the button could be just something like a AJ, most likely won't call; or JJ that won't fold.

so by betting, at best u win one BB, which would likely happen if you just check; most of the time u won't be called; worst case, u will get raised.

by checking, u could encourage a worse hand to bet for "value" or bluff.

just my two pennies /images/graemlins/smile.gif

by the way, is this party? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Kenny

[potato]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like the river bet too much. i think once the hand has unfolded this way, i would have just check and call a bet from anyone on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-call cannot be the correct play here with the fish in the pot. If the fish has any kind of hand that hero beats, he will just check. Button will check his missed AJ/AQ, and there you go.

Even if button has a hand that hero is losing to (JJ), he will just call a bet on the end. But the fish will call with "any pair", making a bet imperative.

[astroglide]

depends. you said he's good, but is he mr. fancy pants? if i'm going to get a bet out of the guy i'd rather do it while i believe i have the best hand and i am charging him to hit an out.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't like the river bet too much. i think once the hand has unfolded this way, i would have just check and call a bet from anyone on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-call cannot be the correct play here with the fish in the pot. If the fish has any kind of hand that hero beats, he will just check. Button will check his missed AJ/AQ, and there you go.

Even if button has a hand that hero is losing to (JJ), he will just call a bet on the end. But the fish will call with "any pair", making a bet imperative.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, and this is exactly what happened. The fish called me with bottom pair, no kicker. Sadly, the button called as well and had two aces.