Foxwoods 10-20 hand #2

This hand comes up 2 hours after the hand which I've just posted. By then I know my opponents a lot better.


All fold to a mid-position player (weak-loose) who limps. I am next to him and find K(s)Q(s) . With KQ suited, I usually prefer a multiway pot and limp. However, at this particular hand, I want to isolate the weak player, so I raise. Next player folds, the one after the next player(the very aggressive player I confronted in my previous post) 3 bets. All fold to the weak player (WP) who calls. I call, so 3 of us see the flop for 10.5 small bets.


The flop is AKx (r). WP and I check to the 3-better, who bets. WP calls. I think for a while and fold, worrying about being a huge underdog to possible AK, AQ, KK or AA.


Comments welcome and result later.

unless the guy is a nut aggressive player, id call to the turn and see if i improve. i think if ya turn trips or 2 pair youll win. if you dont and he bets thats where id lay it down.

the hands you mentioned that are maybe possible with this flop all would be good, , to slowplay to the turn since the only real draw is the inside str8.

AA or KK? id be suprised, since he saw that you didnt reraise the flop..

AK? same deal

the weak player may have a weak A and call all the way down.

he might play it fast as a disguised position play too, but that depends on how thinking this player is.


another way of playing it wouldve been to reraise the flop since it is a cheap street. then if he reraises,then fold. he may be betting QQ or JJ and using his position. a reraise may also cause the WP to fold.


im curious about the results...


just some ideas with the limited information given...


b

The turn and river are both blanks and they just check it down. The 3-better shows pocket 10s and wins the pot. WP mucks his hand. Imagine how I feel when I find out I mucked my best hand?


BTW, if I have AK and flop top 2 pairs, I'll usually bet into the WP after he checks, 'cuz he might be drawing a gut shot and I don't want to give him free cards.

There are only 3 aces, two kings, and three queens unaccounted for, so AA, KK, or AQ are less likely than AJ or JJ. You are probably behind, but I think it is worth taking one off to see if you improve to two pair or better or pick up a gutshot draw to go with your pair. This call is even better if you have a backdoor flush draw, as well.

Depending on who the player behind you is, I'd either fold or raise when he bets on the flop.


If he's one of the guys who believes in the moral imperative that no flop is ever free, I'd raise and then bet on the turn. WP is likely to call the flop and then fold on the turn. If three-bettor raises your bet on the turn, you can let go of the hand.


If he's a little more cautious, I'd fold the flop, because of the presence of WP in the hand.


--JMike

p.s. The wife and I were going to try to make it down to Foxwoods yesterday but we got on the road too late and the snowstorm forced us back home .. a shame .. the road conditions improved dramatically by the time we'd have needed to go home. /images/frown.gif

Definitely a bad idea to fold on the flop, esp if you had a backdoor flush draw.


your hand is much better than you think - a loose aggressive 3 bettor usually has a pocket pair 88 or better, AQ or AK. You are a huge favorite over many of these hands. There are only 6 ways for him to have AK, and 9 for AQ. Add 4 for AA and KK and you get 23 hands. QQ is 3, and JJ-88 is 24. So if these are the hands he plays this way, you are very often ahead of him.


If he is tighter, say TT is the worst pair, and the AQ must be suited, now there are 2-3 ways for AQ, and only 15 ways for underpair - still a very good chance you are ahead.


Good luck.


Dan Z.

the point i was making is that theres not many cards that will hurt ya. yes you can still get stung, and a bet is a good solid play. they may also just put ya on an A.


i guess i had it right with the underpair though...


b

I haven't read the others yet but what I sometimes do in this spot is bet the flop and usually fold if the 3-bettor raises. If the 3-bettor plays poorly he may just call and tell you that he has a pair, probably 10-10 through Q-Q. Of course, if he has a monster he may wait for the turn and pop you then, but a lot of times, the bad players call and try to hit their two outer or pick up a gutter on the turn. If the limper folds, you should bet the turn every time. If he calls, you hope he has something like Q10 but who knows. It's hard to keep betting second pair vs two guys but you saw what can happen when the opposition plays this way. I at least want a chance to take it down and the way to do that is to assert yourself on the flop. If the three bettor plays well he will lay down right there, and if you put the limper on a random hand, betting has to be correct because the 3 bettor will have a pocket pair less than KK a good chunk of the time.....

When he decided to play his 10's, he decided to try to win the pot whether he flopped a set or not.


IMO, once he decides not to fold preflop, he should play the hand exactly as he did.

didnt say he was wrong...i woulda played it that way too. everyone checks to ya like that, ya gotta bet it. however, how would he have played with a checkraise comin back at him? thatd put him in the spotlight.


b