Question or two for Ed Miller

[12AX7]

Hi Ed, Just a question or two after reading your bio. <ul type="square"> I see it took about 2 years for you to turn pro. Were you able to devote full time to that process? I see you were MIT and Microsoft...Any chance your software career left you well off enough to chase the poker career with peace of mind, or did the poker career simply superceed the software career? Are you a "math wizard" and if so, do you feel that not being one is a major impediment to reaching the goal of being a poker pro (defined as being able to live a middle class life from poker earnings)? Since you've actually done it youself, what advice, caveats, etc. would you pass on to an admitted wannabe who's sitting at the very beginning of the pursuit? [/list]12AX7

[Ed Miller]

I see it took about 2 years for you to turn pro. Were you able to devote full time to that process?

While I played my first poker hand in November 2001, I didn't really start playing in earnest until July 2002. At that point, my main game was live $4-$8 at my local card room. By January 2003, I was beating the $10-$20 game at my local card room. In March 2003 I quit my job.

During those six months... July to January... I estimate that I spent about 20-30 hours per week reading about, discussing, and playing poker.

I see you were MIT and Microsoft...Any chance your software career left you well off enough to chase the poker career with peace of mind, or did the poker career simply superceed the software career?

Working at Microsoft provided me a solid bankroll to play $10-$20 to $20-$40 without much fear of going broke. So no, I did not have to build my bankroll up "from nothing." But building it up from nothing is not very hard to do if you are willing to play online. I don't like to play online, so I don't. I forfeit a lot of potential earn by refusing to play online, but I play poker because I enjoy it, not to get rich.

I left my job at Microsoft because I didn't like my group/position. It wasn't because I preferred to play poker instead. But when I did leave, poker became a convenient fallback for me. I originally intended to get another job, but then I just kind of didn't.

Are you a "math wizard" and if so, do you feel that not being one is a major impediment to reaching the goal of being a poker pro (defined as being able to live a middle class life from poker earnings)?

I know many people who support themselves comfortably playing poker who have questionable math skills. But I believe that the ability to think logically (more so than mathematically) is a key skill that can add a lot to your potential earn. That is, the people who make a living with questionable math skills would do significantly better if they thought more clearly.

Since you've actually done it youself, what advice, caveats, etc. would you pass on to an admitted wannabe who's sitting at the very beginning of the pursuit?

You have to decide what you want out of poker. I play poker because I have no responsibilities (no wife, kids, etc.), and it's more fun than working. I play only live, and I play mostly low- and mid-limits. I also don't play all that many hours. Thus, I don't earn a boatload of money doing it, but it pleases me... at least for now.

I decided to write the book because it will make money, but also because I enjoy teaching and discussing poker as much (if not more) than actually playing it. I'm not a world class player by any stretch, and I will probably never be. I don't want to be. I like teaching and writing and playing in low-key, soft games.

If you want to make a lot of money, you will essentially have to multitable online. A good player willing to multitable like a fiend and play lots of hours can make a TON of cash (at least for now while the "boom" is going on). But most people I know who do that don't enjoy it... they do it because they need the cash.

It seems like you are brand new to poker, and you are entering with plans of becoming a "pro." I suggest you not do that... just play poker, see if you like it, and see if you improve quickly. If you are good, making money, and feeling good about it, think about "going pro" at that point.

[sonataarctica]

wow ed you sure are one hell of a guy to thoughtfully answer all those questions and the other questions that us posters here ask. its nice to know you really can get sound advice from experienced players such as yourself. i dont know how much people thank you but, hey , thanks( and this wasnt even my question /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

[12AX7]

Hi Ed, I second sonataarctica's heartfelt thanks!<ul type="square"> Sorry to have to use these bullets to get some formatting! Well truth is I'm not new to poker per se, but definitely to HE. Last time I devoted seriou time to it I was break even or slight loser. Say about $2000 down in 18 months time. I did get the books related to that game from 2+2, But to be honest, they often left me confused. So much If-then-else-except.when... type logic if you know what I mean. Sometimes I felt it would be easier, but more protracted to try to arrive at my own conclusions. For whatever reasons, reading HE hand analysis as they are typically written makes me nod off. But then so did algorithms in computer classes....However, creating my own was quite enjoyable. though definitely frustrating at times. So perhaps it's just me, but both much poker writing and writings about algorithms seem to make my eyes gloss over because it's not written in a way that makes the ideas clear "in a flas" as it were. That's why I blame myself for the results last time around...I failed to really study the material as though it were textbook material. In any event, to me poker is pointless if not to make a living at it, as for me it really is work. It's the autonomy factor I seek. Which I'm willing to pay for with effort. But, it absolutely has to work or it's wasted life as well as lost funds! Hence the analysis paralysis you've pointed out I have! I mean geez what's the point of any work that doesn't lead to autonomy other than survival? Except of course, "labors of love" or "humanity". To be honest, after watching some WPT, I'm not sure that the best players aren't just the best guessers! Beyond that, one can see that they clearly make mistakes, get raised off Though no doubt to a lesser magnitude than a weak player like myself. (And can we really say that Moneymaker *didn't catch some miracle cards???) But then PGA pros miss fairways and end up in bunkers too. Pro skaters fall on thier butts, etc. Anyway, I have to believe that no matter what I did, I wouldn't come up to speed at the rate you did. I simply believe I am not as gifted as you are IMHO. Last thought for now though. I'd definitely have to work at least some while chasing the goal. No doubt about it. And the money would be important to me. Thanks Again![/list]

[brick]

Yeah, thanks for all you've contributed.

[Gabe]

Were you on the infamous MIT blackjack team?

[Ed Miller]

Were you on the infamous MIT blackjack team?

I can't say one way or the other.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't say one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh stfu. You weren't on any blackjack teams.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't say one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh stfu. You weren't on any blackjack teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

TNPA wouldn't be playing the negative EV continuous shuffle machines at the Mirage if he was one of those guys. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[etizzle]

Ed, I am a junior at MIT. What 'local cardroom' are you talking about?

[Ed Miller]

Oh stfu. You weren't on any blackjack teams.

Nobody wrote any books about it, but there was also an MIT Craps team.

[Ed Miller]

Ed, I am a junior at MIT. What 'local cardroom' are you talking about?

Two guys, one named Leroy and this real fat dude who calls himself Hands, used to run a game out of the Central Square T stop starting back in the late 90s.

[J.A.Sucker]

The craps team was lucrative as hell, and I heard a lot about it. Having now experienced it firsthand, all I can say is WOW!

[12AX7]

Ummm... How do you beat craps without cheating?

[The Dude]

Apparantly Ed Miller has discoverd that, while wearing a dress, he never rolls a seven.

[Ed Miller]

Ummm... How do you beat craps without cheating?

You can make a lot of money if you never roll a seven.

[andyfox]

Or if you always roll a seven.

Like I do.

[12AX7]

True, any deviation from the normal dice distribution is likely exploitable if you know it's occuring or can cause it to happen... but aren't both cases "cheating"...So same question, "How'd you do it?"
:-)

[Ed Miller]

So same question, "How'd you do it?"

I fear I've already said too much...