Did I over bet this set?

[mctommy015]

Well, I'm apparently an idiot and couldn't get the hand converter to work so my appologies :].

This hand too place on $50 .5-.1NL on Empire Poker.

I'm UTG and get dealt 9's. Normally I fold here, but a lot of hands have been going unraised preflop so I figured I'd try to limp in. Player A raises to 4 and player B calls. I also call.

Flop comes down J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I check, Player A bets 10, player B calls. I check raise to make it 40 (this would put player A all in, B had about 80 dollars) and they both thought for awhile and then folded. Should I have just called, maybe made it 25-30, or was my play good here?

[Richie Rich]

Did you want them to call?

[SlyAK]

mctommy,

I think a check-raise is the best play here, as long as you are reasonably sure that the PF raiser will bet out. I would have made it something like $30 to $40 here with the check-raise. You dont want to give a free or 'cheap' card to a hand like A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Punish them now, and be happy to take down a small/medium pot if they fold. Also, I will often play the low and medium pp's PF at passive tables even from EP. Well played.


PS. Interesting playing w/u the other night on prima. I normally dont criticize other players at the table like that night. Hope I didnt give you a bad impression. See you around.

Sly

[MasterShakes]

You normally FOLD 99 here? In this game, IMO, that is insanity. Call UTG with every single pocket pair you're dealt IMO and then deal with any raise that comes along accordingly with the rule of 5 and 10. Flopped sets are enormous in this game and you should take every opportunity you're dealt to get there.

Check-raise isn't bad though. I don't dislike the way you played this hand.

[DMBFan23]

Rule of 5 and 10?

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Rule of 5 and 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I understand it correctly, the rule of 5 and 10 says that you should play any small or medium pocket pair if you can see a flop for 5% of your stack or less. 10% or more you should fold. If it's in between I guess it's a judgement call.

[gomberg]

Also the raiser has to have a lot of money too

[MasterShakes]

An example:

You have 99 UTG and call a $1 blind.

A loose and aggressive player in middle or late position raises to $5. You both have around $65 left behind. This is an easy call to me. If you flop your set, you have a good shot at getting his whole stack in. It becomes an even easier call if other players with substantial stacks call.

[King_J]

[ QUOTE ]
mctommy,

I think a check-raise is the best play here, as long as you are reasonably sure that the PF raiser will bet out. I would have made it something like $30 to $40 here with the check-raise. You dont want to give a free or 'cheap' card to a hand like A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Punish them now, and be happy to take down a small/medium pot if they fold.

Sly

[/ QUOTE ]

I sure as hell doesn´t wanna take a small/medium pot down with a set!!! Why would he wanna do that?
I want to get called by both players so I can move in on turn and get called again. Its a friggin set...

[Richie Rich]

You're right...I don't see any possible cards/draws that could give either opponent a better hand on the turn. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[MasterShakes]

Or any possible hands that they could have right now... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[SlyAK]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right...I don't see any possible cards/draws that could give either opponent a better hand on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh??? Really?? You dont think an opponent could have 2 diamonds here? I have flopped a set on a 2-tone board and lost many times when the turn card brought a 3rd flush card. I am not advising that mctommy folds if a flush card falls on the turn. I just think he needs to check-raise enough so that it is incorrect for the opponent to draw to a flush.

Sly

[bunky9590]

Play was fine. nice hand. Check raise is the way to go. Make the diamond draws play for a stack.

[Richie Rich]

Glad you picked up on my sarcastic response to King J, concerning a draw-heavy board against two opponents. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're right...I don't see any possible cards/draws that could give either opponent a better hand on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh??? Really?? You dont think an opponent could have 2 diamonds here? I have flopped a set on a 2-tone board and lost many times when the turn card brought a 3rd flush card. I am not advising that mctommy folds if a flush card falls on the turn. I just think he needs to check-raise enough so that it is incorrect for the opponent to draw to a flush.

Sly

[/ QUOTE ]


Irony. n. (I-run-ee) The use of words to convey the opposite of their literal meaning. See Sarcasm. Often ineffective when used in the written form, particularly on poker bulletin boards.

--Greg

[Richie Rich]

...except when used in conjunction with the /images/graemlins/tongue.gif face.

[gergery]

I think you overbet it slightly. Try $30 instead.

You want to price it so the hands that could beat you are making mistakes to call. Your $40 bet offers them $30 to win $60 which is 2:1 with one card to come. Straights or flush draws need about ~4:1 but really have less than that with your fullhouse potential -- call it 5:1. Try betting $30 so that they need to call $20 to win 50. Getting one caller is ideal, two callers is still good. You also might pick up a caller with top pair or two pair, and give them an opportunity to think you’ll fold to their reraise.

Even if they hit, you are 10 outs on river or 3:1 to improving which means even if they hit you can make money by calling up to a $25 bet – reasonably likely given they might want to slowplay.

Bottom line is with the best hand your ideal scenario is to have callers here that pay you more than its worth for the privilege. Your variance will go up, but so will your profits.

--Greg

[BlueBear]

Unless the game is overly tough and aggressive, I will play ANY pocket pair in ANY position due the implied odds.

[NotAClue]

I think this is true if the Hero has position on the field. If the draw hits on the turn, many players at this limit will check it hoping to check-raise/smooth call a turn bet. With position, the hero can check the turn through and try to fill up on the river. Being first to act, I'd much rather take the pot now.

[SlyAK]

Guess I missed the sarcasm there.... seems easy to do online!!!

Sly