Medium Pair In Loose-Aggressive Games

Hello,Players.

I would like to resolve the issue of whether or not to play a medium pair when the game is routinely capped pre-flop and on the flop with many players seeing the flop.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sitting Bull

love these games dont ya. if ya got a big session-roll, call to the flop and hope for a set. if ya end up in a str8 draw, then decide if yer roll can withstand seein the turn. if its just capped pre flop but then passive on flop, id see the flop. id do this with strong positional drawing hands too. however your swings will be huge. coming in for 4 bets taxes your stacks pretty quick. the other way is not to play em and only stick to premium hands. at the most wired Js or better then AQs and AKs. can be a boring game though. i tend to leave these tables when they get capped all the way like this. just not worth my patience when their are better games somewhere else.


i got into a game like this recently and entered the pot with TT. high card on flop was 9. so i have an overpair, turn comes blank, river is a Q. one person turns over AA another turned over Q9os to win. me and the AA player hardly made a bet. they bet it the whole way. that was my last hand at the table. some people really love these games. they act like its great action. well i think this type of action sucks. its like a lottery. ya cant put anyone on a hand. especially when theyre playin blind the whole way. those are the really fun ones...haha


good luck...


b

"if its just capped pre flop but then passive on flop, id see the flop"


This is bass-ackwards, for medium pocket pairs.


Basically, the 10:1 rule is in effect here.

i believe i explained the advantages and perils both. even with a disclaimer about the swings. tables like this are assbackwards. and a set is huge in these games. play the mid pairs in normal position. the later position the better. as an example i wouldnt depthcharge pocket 2s from UTG, but id sure play it in late with 6 callers to a capped flop. others may not, thats fine.


b

Hello,Bernie,

I've giving you my definition of a loose-aggressive game:one that is ROUTINELY CAPPED both pre-flop and flop with MANY players staying in both pre=flop and on the flop.

Hence,I don't understand the relevance of "POSITION" in this type of game.

Whether you call a pair in late position,early position or middle position makes NO DIFFERENCE!

The result will ALWAYS be the same:MANY CALLERS capping pre-flop and on the flop EVERY HAND.

SO what does "POSITION" in this case have to do with my question???


Again,I appreciate your comment


Sitting Bull

Hello,Chan,

It's 3 to 1 AGAINST you,Chan. You did not take into consideration the implied odds when you flop a set. If you win,you will be paid well.


Thanks for your Input,Terrence.


Sitting Bull

Bernie said, "if its just capped pre flop but then passive on flop, id see the flop"


This is so bass-ackwards its unbelievable. That's REVERSE IMPLIED ODDS, not IMPLIED ODDS. You MUST understand the distinction (and its far from subtle) to win money in these games.

first off let me lead you 2 some articles in cardplayer by dan negreaneau. they are..."nutbar" "8-3os is fun" and "party day" look in the archives or under authors...one of the 2 will have his stuff.


about position. holdem is a position game. somewhere in the hand your position will come into play. from your definition it looks like they slow down on the turn. keeping strong position hands is also good practice. make damn sure theyre suited if theyre connectors. play the pocket pairs positionally too. id much rather have 44 in this game in late position than UTG. helps make things easier. with later reads if ya make it that far in the hand.


by playing this way, figure the table to be quad sized. ie. if its 4-8 your now playing 16-32. BUT...if theyre capping with anything, your advantage is playin better cards from position. its almost like calling a quad sized big blind. KJs is a huge favorite over T4os and other crap that theyll be playin. what your giving up preflop youll make up by flop play if you hit or miss your hand. and by playing better cards than the others youll have an advantage. mind you, the swings will be huge.


a final thing about playin premium in these games. though definitely also a correct way to play, the reality is that some wild players will tend to notice when a player only comes in with premium. in those instances the action may cool significantly. by giving up a little of the 'nut player' image, youll get more callers when ya hit your hand because they wont just assume you have a nut starting hand. your giving a little to take alot. i believe the articles examples will show this a little too.


1 last thing....remember ...playing this way...your swings will be huge. and the crap players get decent hands at times too...


personally, i hate these tables.


these are just some ideas about playing this type of table that i have had success with. ive also had success the "ultratight' way too.


hope this helps explain it a little better...


b

"You did not take into consideration the implied odds when you flop a set."


That's *exactly* what I took into consideration.


"If you win,you will be paid well."


This contradicts the statement made by Bernie.

Thanks,Anon,

I agree with your clarification. However,my post assumes that the games are also capped post-flop and many players will go to the river to see the last card.

Hence,the implied odds are applicable in this case.


You are definitely correct when you mention a reverse implied odds situation IF the betting "dried up" after the flop and several players no longer are in.


Thanks again for the response.


Sitting Bull