is it me or...

[bicyclekick]

is the standard play on party 15 in a raised pot HU to checkraise the flop with a flush draw? It seems like this is about the ONLY hand that gets c/r on the flop HU. I've started calling and raising a non hit on the turn as long as i have a decent Ace high...if it comes and I don't have a solid hand it's an easy muck.

I know making generalizations is often stupid, but I was curious if anyone else has noticed this?

Seems like other strong hands wait for the turn or lead the flop...

[astroglide]

it's just you.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
it's just you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. My sample size is real small (14k hands) so I'll take your word for it.

[mplspoker]

Very common on 10/20. Many times people check raise the flop with AK out of position after they miss also...

[Senor Choppy]

The only "standard play" I see HU with a flush draw is betting out and capping without hesitation. Top pair usually check-raises the flop unless they like their kicker enough to wait for the turn.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
is the standard play on party 15 in a raised pot HU to checkraise the flop with a flush draw? It seems like this is about the ONLY hand that gets c/r on the flop HU. I've started calling and raising a non hit on the turn as long as i have a decent Ace high...if it comes and I don't have a solid hand it's an easy muck.

I know making generalizations is often stupid, but I was curious if anyone else has noticed this?

Seems like other strong hands wait for the turn or lead the flop...

[/ QUOTE ]

bike,

i believe many do indeed play flush draw this way heads up. most will even CAP no matter what. I am not very fancy with an Ace high, but if i have any hand, i'd stick to river unless flush comes. raising or calling along the way as appropriate of course.

Kenny

[turnipmonster]

what is the deal with people jamming with flush draws heads up? so many people do this, and it's such a -EV move.

--turnipmonster

[astroglide]

one of my more notable observation is that seemingly everyone CALLS to defend (even against steals) with AQ and then leads any flop

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
what is the deal with people jamming with flush draws heads up? so many people do this, and it's such a -EV move.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

I fall in this trap often. do you not get any bluffing equity by capping the flop HU with a 2 flush on board? what is the correct play? check fold with *only* a flush draw? calling down and folding river if you miss?

[astroglide]

it's somewhat forgivable WITH POSITION. they raise for a free card, you threebet, and they fourbet for the free card. i have seen plenty of people checkraise/cap out of position and then check the turn, though.

[turnipmonster]

I agree, but still. some "free" card, eh?

--turnipmonster

[steveyz]

Well, if you were raising the flop for a "free" card and get 3-bet, you're better off capping as it's very rare that your opponent will bet into you again on the turn. However, if you knew that you'd very likely get 3-bet, you shouldn't raise for a free card in the first place. But it's tough to knew that ahead of time.

[astroglide]

you're better off capping as it's very rare that your opponent will bet into you again on the turn

not anymore it's not

[Nightwish]

I haven't noticed this as much as the turn check-raise heads up. They like to do this pretty often against a preflop raiser as long as there's no A/K/Q on the board. People seem to be doing this with any pair (incl. bottom), straight/flush draws, even A high.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's just you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. My sample size is real small (14k hands) so I'll take your word for it.

[/ QUOTE ]


<sniff>
<sniff>

Smell that, folks? Peeps in my hood call that sarcasm.

BOOM!

Seriously, though, it is true, that seems to be a very traditional play to checkraise with the nut flush draw. The reason why it's traditional, though, might have something to do with it being a good play.

Problem is ... you don't know if you're getting CR'ed on a set ... two pair ... top pair top kicker ... or the nut draw. It's a little less obvious than the random dude raising in last position with his open-end straight / flush draw where you can still bet-out on the turn to avoid giving him that mythical "free" card if a blank hits.


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)
"Sarcasm Sells"

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's just you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. My sample size is real small (14k hands) so I'll take your word for it.

[/ QUOTE ]


<sniff>
<sniff>

Smell that, folks? Peeps in my hood call that sarcasm.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well the peeps in your hood are morons...cause I was serious. 14k hands? That's a pretty small sample size. I've only spent 217 hours in the 15/30. Asto has spent more than that this month I bet. I'm not trying to kiss ass, I'm just clarifying.

[BarronVangorToth]

I wouldn't say that about the folks in my hood -- they cut folks around here.

My ghetto notwithstanding, I knew you were being serious in the # of hands you were playing, but stating that information was, in fact, sarcasm.

However, by the very nature that we're talking about this, means the whole exercise wasn't funny ... and therefore moot.

Regardless, my apologies as to your confusion regarding what I was saying.


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)
"The Ghetto Is Mostly Harmless"

[bicyclekick]

Maybe i'm still misunderstanding, but there was no intended sarcasm in my post at all.