The exact moment my love affair with Party Poker ended.

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June 10th, 2004. Posted on this forum by Michael O'Malley, representive of Party Poker.

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The bottom line is this: PartyPoker.com caters to the less experienced, recreational live players. That is 90% of ther player base.

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Of the other 10%, 5 of them are happily earning a rake kickback, and the other 5% are the suckers such as myself that have been there from the begining. They can care less about my business, and that is thier right. I can play somewhere else and I do.

My point is this is a retarded business mentality. Everyone flames me, and seems no one agrees. They defend the living $hit out of site that has publicly declared they don't care aobut them. Listen, do you really think it would cost Party money to award their regualr player base? No effing way. They would not lose money. If they had a rewards program designed to benefit frequent players, they stand to benefit even more from the fish who would play longer and higher to become a VIP. They will earn loyalty and make it hard for anyone to play anywhere else. Microsoft smashes anyone that would compete with them. Party can learn something from that business model. Do not let one single player go to another site EVER. Offer better bonuses and keep them at your site period. They do not have to follow US antitrust laws, take adavanatge of that. Why give the competition an inch?

Now before the flaming starts, I completly understand that the majority of my winnings come from these "fish". But I routinely beat the UB and Stars games as well. Which according to this forum are solid tough players. I was beating the game 4 years ago, I'll still beat it when the current fish are gone too. I don't really dont give a phuck how many new fish Party brings in. I enjoy tough competition because whatever money I win is all just bonus money to me anyway. I deposited $100 one time 4 years ago and have been on a $15,000+ freeroll since. Tough games will just make me better for when I finish grad school and play for real money.

I completely understand 95% or more of you rely on these fish to beat the game or earn a living. But I still think you should at least have some self respect and demand you be treated like a valued player too.

[Beerfund]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[BradleyT]

I agree but I'm a low-roller. I think if I were playing $15/$30 and above I would be forced to play on party (empire + kickback) for the simple fact that's where the fish are at.

You have to look at what your hourly rate on party can be vs. what your hourly rate on a harder site is with a bonus. As a low-roller I can make more doing Crypto skins bonuses, UB bonuses and the random party/empire/stars/paradise deposit bonuses than I can do solely playing on Party. Add all those up and that takes up most of my poker playing time for the month. This often isn't true for higher level players as the time required to clear a $50-$100-$200 bonus at tougher games is better spent simply playing on party.

If there were two B&M casinos by my house and one gave away a free buffet but your 9 opponents were rocks and the other gave away nothing but 9 opponents were fish where would it make more sense to play? Sure casino A "treats" me better, but the bottom line is how much money can I make at casino A vs. casino B.

I don't know why you're so obsessed on how well you get treated. The bottom line is "where can I make the most money?".

[jwvdcw]

Ok, we get it. You hate PartyPoker.

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"where can I make the most money?"

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And this is the essence of it all. Myself, like you, will make the most money at Party, WHEN they are offering me a bonus in addition to their good games. This goes without a doubt.

When they aren't giving me a bonus, I can often make more playing elsewhere.

So the question becomes "How much does it cost Party to give me a bonus?" If they stand to lose money, then I agree, and I'll go off and phuck myself.

However, I see it like this. If I play there, and give them $6/hr rake, and they give me $3/hr bonus. They are up $3/hr.

If I don't play there at all, then they are losing $3/hr. If I still play there anyway without a bonus, they make $6/hr.

The bottom line is, I am not playing there without a bonus so they lose money on me. They may make that up from others who stay on anyway. But my $3/hr is still up for grabs. If they were smart, they would figure out a way to take that too. Think about it, theres a way it can be done.

[thirddan]

Party uses me to make money (its a business, i accept this)
I use party to make money, and I do as do most of the posters here...

that is the only thing that matters...

if there was another site that provided the same games and players that party does and had naked ladies come to my house and dance around me while i played or gave me some super VIP system that would be better, but no other site that i have played at offers the money making potential that party does...

[Syntax]

I think the naked lady idea is a good one though.

[Alobar]

They are a buisness, it only makes sense from that standpoint to keep the most number of people happy. Please 90% or please 10%....gee, thats a tough one.

If you want to play some place that has a good rewards program for its loyal players, go play at truepoker, you and the other 5 people that play there can have fun accumulating rewards.

[MicroBob]

the reason you get flamed is because you are starting thread after thread on the same topic.

i'm too lazy to look it up....but i would guess you have started 10 threads in the past couple of days that all basically state 'party poker sucks'.

we understand that you don't like it....but you really aren't saying anything new anymore.

1. if you don't like it...then don't play there.
2. respect the right of others to actually continue playing there in spite of their problems.
3. stop starting thread after thread on the same subject.


this isn't like the Yankees and the Red Sox. we don't need a whole bunch of people shouting at each other
"UB is the BEST!!"
"Party is Better!!"
"You're an idiot....Party will never be better than UB!!!"
"No!! You're the idiot.....UB players are tougher than Party's!!"
"No!! You're the idiot....i can beat the UB players 8 days a week!!"
"Go UB"
"Go Party"
blah blah blah


different players around here like playing on different sites for different reasons.
i don't think that's terribly difficult to understand.

[Syntax]

Please explain to me why it would be impossible for them to please the other 10%. Thats all I ask.

[MicroBob]

i WISH this would be all you asked.

[Alobar]

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Please explain to me why it would be impossible for them to please the other 10%. Thats all I ask.

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Say party has X dollars to spend on rewards marketing. Which is going to get a better return, giving bonus money to people who never play there, thus bringing in new players and increasing the pool from which they can draw rake from. Or giving bonus money to people who already play there and are going to play there weather or not they get a bonus? If you answer that its the latter, then you are a moron. They don't cater to the 10% because they know no matter what they do the 10% isn't going anywhere. They know they are the #1 site because they have all the fish and they do what it takes to bring in the fish. Does it annoy me when empire sends out reloads and free money and I don't get any even tho I play like 10K hands a week there....you betcha. Do I start thread after thread to whine about it? no, because I understand its business

[Syntax]

You didnt answer the question. At the absolute very least, Party could set up a rewards program like the Empire VIP, Stars FFP, UB points.

Losing a couple players that pay $5k a year in rake could easily be put to other bonuses.

There are plenty of methods they could come up with to reward regular players as well that would not affect their bottom line. Are you telling me that this is an impossibily, or just something party doesnt seem interested in at the moment. Thats all.

[MicroBob]

i still don't get it.

if you don't like it there...then just don't play there.

this is not complicated.


i don't particularly care for live-poker for the most part.
but i am not about to start 10 threads in the general or B&M forums telling everyone why online poker is better and how stupid they are for thinking otherwise.


i also don't like Burger King fries as much as Wendy's.
i really think they suck.
my solution....i don't buy BK fries.



go ahead and make your 300 transactions this month.
nobody is telling you not to.
most people here seem to think it's pretty childish....and most people here think that party's operation could be A LOT better.
but some of the people here also believe they are making more profits at party then they would elsewhere.
they aren't defending party....they are mildly disagreeing with you on where the most fish are (you say it's a bit more even...while others think they are more densely concentrated at party).
so these players are at party because they like the profitability there when compared with the other problems there.

i fail to see why you should be so bothered by the fact that some are preferring to play at party.


another example....
JohnShaft has stated several times that most of his play is at the mid-stakes games at UB...mostly 10/20 i think.
he has also stated that he loves it there and especially loves the software and the miniview.

i certainly think he would probably be better off playing the 15/30 at party then the 10/20 at UB....and while i like the mini-view, i'm not in agreement that they have the best software in the world (i finds their lobby very difficult to navigate).
so JohnShaft and i have a difference of opinion on UB (this is news to Shaft...although i'm sure he doesn't care).
does this mean i have to start 10 threads on here saying 'I still can't understand why ANYONE would even dream of playing the 10/20 games on UB when they can obviously find better games somewhere else'

no...i don't do this....
he plays where he wants...i play where i want....you play where you want....

why do we all need to agree on which place is the best??

if anything...i would think you would want to keep these ideal games to yourself.


thanks for listening.

[gabyyyyy]

Hey Bob since you do so well at party how about sending this fish 50 bucks. I am sure you would just win it right back.

Ooooh better yet how about a heads up match between you and I.. Like 1/2 If I win I get the 50 if you win I owe you 50.

Everyone can come and watch.. it will be a blast.

[MicroBob]

Wow....you are SOOOO right.
loaning you $50 would really be a lot of fun!!!!


sorry....i think i'll have to take a pass. thanks for the offer though.


btw.....not sure where exactly i said that i am making a ton of money on party.
i specifically made reference to OTHER players who prefer to play at party as is their choice.

while i am indeed doing decently at party/empire, i am doing even better for now bonus-chasing at other casinos.

[gabyyyyy]

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Wow....you are SOOOO right.
loaning you $50 would really be a lot of fun!!!!


sorry....i think i'll have to take a pass. thanks for the offer though.


btw.....not sure where exactly i said that i am making a ton of money on party.
i specifically made reference to OTHER players who prefer to play at party as is their choice.

while i am indeed doing decently at party/empire, i am doing even better for now bonus-chasing at other casinos.

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Who said anything about a loan? If I am a as bad as a player as everyone thinks I am it should be easy money no?

Id think 50 would be cheap just for me to divulge my screename there.

Cheapskate wussay!

What..?? Did I hear the sound of a chicken.. Buck buck.

[MS Sunshine]

It always surprises me when players with your math skills need to panhandle for poker money.

MS Sunshine

[gabyyyyy]

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It always surprises me when players with your math skills need to panhandle for poker money.

MS Sunshine

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It always surprises me when you and Stew seem to always find my posts like 2 min after I create them and make brainless insults.

[MicroBob]

ummm....if i understood it right, i would have to loan you $50 just to play this heads-up match and then if i win my own money back you would then owe me $50.

why would i want to take a deal like that??


i guess i am a chicken (or wussay or whatever you want to call it).
i have no earthly reason to believe you would actually pay me back....nor do i care to find out.....so on this matter i am a chicken.

i actually do think that you would pay me whatever amount i might be owed in the end....but i am unwilling to take that risk nor do i feel it to be necessary.


additionally, i feel i have nothing to prove regarding my skill compared to yours or other posters on these forums.

i have already stated on several occasions that i believe i am a mediocre player that is still good enough to win a majority of the time against inferior competition.

when i read some of the outstanding HH's and observations in the SS and ML forums i KNOW that i am a mediocre player with much room for improvement.


i have never claimed to be a great player.
i have never even claimed to be a better player then you....

although i have certainly disagreed with some of your previous views that i felt were so erroneous i couldn't even tell if you were joking or not.

[gabyyyyy]

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ummm....if i understood it right, i would have to loan you $50 just to play this heads-up match and then if i win my own money back you would then owe me $50.

why would i want to take a deal like that??


i guess i am a chicken (or wussay or whatever you want to call it).
i have no earthly reason to believe you would actually pay me back....nor do i care to find out.....so on this matter i am a chicken.

i actually do think that you would pay me whatever amount i might be owed in the end....but i am unwilling to take that risk nor do i feel it to be necessary.


additionally, i feel i have nothing to prove regarding my skill compared to yours or other posters on these forums.

i have already stated on several occasions that i believe i am a mediocre player that is still good enough to win a majority of the time against inferior competition.

when i read some of the outstanding HH's and observations in the SS and ML forums i KNOW that i am a mediocre player with much room for improvement.


i have never claimed to be a great player.
i have never even claimed to be a better player then you....

although i have certainly disagreed with some of your previous views that i felt were so erroneous i couldn't even tell if you were joking or not.

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You are right.. I would never pay you back. I would close my 2+2 ID and move to Egypt.


Lighten up, I was only joking. Although I really was interested in playing you heads up. Also it is true that I am a poor college student. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Syntax]

This post gave me the insight I needed into understanding why you are so resistent to my view on Party and why you are happy there.

And by the way, I dont hate Party. I still do play there. And I will continue to play there when it's worth it to me. I just think their rewards mentality could be a lot better for everyone, party included.

[MS Sunshine]

Quick, brainless insult or not, did you really think this forum was going to give you a free pass when you beg for money? If you did then you have seriously misjudged Zoo reality.

MS Sunshine

You are not the most important person in the world.

Party/Empire does not owe you any special priivledges.

They offer a service: you like you play, if not go somewhere else.

If you've got such a complex about people getting a rake rebate, why don't you make the effort to set something up yourself.

Honestly, stop your bitching woman

[MicroBob]

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This post gave me the insight I needed into understanding why you are so resistent to my view on Party and why you are happy there.

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evidently, you weren't paying attention the first dozen or so times i said it.

i am NOT resistent to many of your views on party. in fact, i AGREE with many of your ideas.

i am NOT terribly happy there and never said that i was.

my biggest issue is with the number of threads you started to state the same opinion over and over again.

[Losing all]

I also think they should do a little something for the everydayers, even if it's as lame as VIP. Most of us understood your point 50 posts ago, and agree or disagree with it, we don't really need to read about it 50 or 100 more times.

Now, Do you get my point?

[gabyyyyy]

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Quick, brainless insult or not, did you really think this forum was going to give you a free pass when you beg for money? If you did then you have seriously misjudged Zoo reality.

MS Sunshine




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Yes, forgive me for assuming that some here have walked in my shoes at some point in their lives.

BTW, stop talking to me like im some new poster here. Just because you play high limits does not give you the right, to be an a$$hole.

[Syntax]

I don't know anything about you, and I don't know what you do for a living. I would immediately guess you do not work in management or customer service.

Most business don't expect people to come to them and to phuck off if they don't like it. It may work like that in your industry, I dont know. Most business see their customers as the reason for thier existence.

I really doubt Party shares your attitude and moto: "If you don't like us, go somewhere else"

[MicroBob]

my apologies if i misunderstood your post/pseudo-joke.

i was unaware that you were a poor college student.


study the game and improve and get back at it and you may be able to get back on your feet in no time.


there really isn't much of a reason to play me heads-up....i'm a pretty sucky heads-up player anyway.

[Syntax]

I may have gotten your point 50 posts ago if you said this then. All I seem to recall reading were, die you phucking moron responses (not neccessarily from you) but yeah, I got it now.

[sumdumguy]

**deleted**

[MS Sunshine]

You are right I have fun at your expense, but I don't talk to you like you're a new poster. I talk to you like you're a hostile pseudo-know-it-all that IMO needs to be taken down a peg.

So, I plan to continue my current posting policy towards you.

Have a nice day.

MS Sunshine

[Gorgonian]

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You are right I have fun at your expense, but I don't talk to you like you're a new poster. I talk to you like you're a hostile pseudo-know-it-all that IMO needs to be taken down a peg.

So, I plan to continue my current posting policy towards you.

Have a nice day.

MS Sunshine

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Nice post! Would read again! A++

[JohnShaft]

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You are not the most important person in the world.

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You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

[JohnShaft]

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Most business don't expect people to come to them and to phuck off if they don't like it.

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You really haven't been to England, have you?

[$DEADSEXE$]

Because they don't give a [censored]. It's that simple. It's just basic numbers...why should they care about 10%, when the other 90% is where they make their money.
Same reason that most banks don't give a [censored] about all the complaints they get from customers. Party cares about the masses not the individual.
I've had problems at times on all three sites, PP,UB,and PS.
PokerStars so far has been the best in regards to customer service and treating every player the same. UB's suport is spotty.

[sumdumguy]

My past experiences with PS support have been totally awesome! They have the very best customer support of all the poker sites I have ever dealt with.