Checking my Full House on the Turn

[Philuva]

Very loose passive $15-30 online.

Two limpers to me and I limp in CO+1 with 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Both blinds call. 5 players to the flop with 5 SB's in the pot.

Flop is A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Checked to me. I bet and two players call. 3 to the turn with 4 BB's in the pot.

Turn is T /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Checked to me again and I check.

River is 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

1st player checks. Player to my right bets. I call and other player calls.

How do you like my play?

[potato]

You have to call the river because you checked the turn. But what are you hoping he's going to turn over? KQ? A flush that just got there? I think at best you are splitting here.

You describe the game as loose passive. Bet the turn and fold to a raise. If you get called, fold to a river bet or check behind. It's passive, right?

[haakee]

I like it. You set yourself up to lose the minimum to an ace while still getting to see a showdown.

[steveyz]

I think you played it just fine. If you bet the turn, an Ace will likely check-raise, and a flush or broadway draw will likely fold.

I'm not sure why someone would advocate betting the turn and folding to a check-raise ... it's not like you have to protect your hand. You're either far ahead, far behind, or chopping. And by checking through you can induce a river bluff.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
You describe the game as loose passive. Bet the turn and fold to a raise. If you get called, fold to a river bet or check behind. It's passive, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

So explain to me why I should bet the turn again given this logic? Is it for value or to protect my hand?

[potato]

OK, I see your point. You don't need to protect your hand since if you are behind, you are dead to 1 out. I suppose there are two royal flush draws potentially out there, though. If there's any chance you can fold another ten, I like a turn bet.

I just don't think you went home with more than half of this small pot, especially given the overcall on the river.

If you bet the turn and get checkraised, you can safely fold, you spend 1 bet. If you bet the turn and get called, you can fold to a "I'm afraid you'll check behind" bet, you spend 1 bet. You can check behind and spend 1 bet.

As it is, you spent 1 bet and maybe cost yourself half the pot.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
If there's any chance you can fold another ten, I like a turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot think of a single player that I've ever encountered that would call on the flop with a ten, then fold the turn for one bet when another popped off.

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet the turn and get checkraised, you can safely fold, you spend 1 bet. If you bet the turn and get called, you can fold to a "I'm afraid you'll check behind" bet, you spend 1 bet. You can check behind and spend 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if he checks the turn and calls one bet on the end, he spends that same 1 bet, BUT:

1) Can gain an extra bet from a player who bluffs on the end.
2) Encourages a flush to make an ill-conceived "value bet" on the end.
3) Encourages a hand like K-high to make a hopeless call.
4) Avoids getting check-raised off the best hand.
5) Avoids getting check-raised and having to call down.

And the downside. Very little. Here are the hands that are currently losing to Philuva and have outs. Royal draws, 1 out. KK, QQ, JJ (2 outs each). Every other hand is either winning, tying or drawing dead.

This check behind on the turn sure looks right to me.

[ QUOTE ]
As it is, you spent 1 bet and maybe cost yourself half the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ludicrous.

[Ulysses]

Seems pretty straightforward.

[Enon]

Very nice. No shame in playing like a wuss when its by far the best line to take /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[potato]

[ QUOTE ]
And if he checks the turn and calls one bet on the end, he spends that same 1 bet, BUT:

1) Can gain an extra bet from a player who bluffs on the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
Granted.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Encourages a flush to make an ill-conceived "value bet" on the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really think this is going to happen? These players are going to check and call.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Encourages a hand like K-high to make a hopeless call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would you bet if checked to again?

[ QUOTE ]
4) Avoids getting check-raised off the best hand.
5) Avoids getting check-raised and having to call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
From the game description, I am not worried about these two.

Taking the passive line seems to be very in vogue lately, and it's good in aggressive games. But I like it marginally less than a turn bet here.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Encourages a flush to make an ill-conceived "value bet" on the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really think this is going to happen? These players are going to check and call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sure do. Most players play quite poorly.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3) Encourages a hand like K-high to make a hopeless call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would you bet if checked to again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4) Avoids getting check-raised off the best hand.
5) Avoids getting check-raised and having to call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
From the game description, I am not worried about these two.


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay.

[ QUOTE ]
Taking the passive line seems to be very in vogue lately, and it's good in aggressive games. But I like it marginally less than a turn bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally disagree, for reasons already stated. I think this is a very clear turn check. You have given no good reasons otherwise. I'm surprised that Philuva even posted this hand.

[Senor Choppy]

This is the worst justification for betting that I've ever seen on these forums.

[potato]

OK.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally disagree, for reasons already stated. I think this is a very clear turn check. You have given no good reasons otherwise. I'm surprised that Philuva even posted this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you and El Diablo, this is a pretty straight forward hand. I usually don't post hands that I know I played right, but I have seen others mess this up in this situation and haven't seen this type of hand posted in a while so I thought I would throw it out there. The fact that Potato is unclear of the best line, I will assume others are unclear as well.

Anyway, results, both players had spade flush draws and made their flushes on the river. I won the pot.

[bernie]

About the most textbook way to play it.

I dont see anything wrong with it.

b