Case Study In The "Stupidity" of a Cheater [Archive]

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 06:47 AM

A couple of weeks ago someone posted on here about how he got a refund for a $200 SNG on Party because players were falsely accusing him of cheating w/ a player from Moscow.

He was incredulous about being accused of cheating and was complimentary of Party for refunding his buy-in for the SNG.

I responded that I had first hand experience w/ very supspicious betting/playing patterns w/ 2 players from Moscow in the same $200 SNG on party and that I would heretofore get up from the table if 2 players from Moscow were seated in my tourney.

I am not sure how to link to another post on 2+2, but the poster I am referring to is "cptkernow" and below is an excerpt of a post he made in the "News, Views, and Gossip" forum concerning the current WSOP 2nd place finisher being banned from MAGIC for cheating.

"In my mind magic deserves to have the piss taken out of it.

How beter to do that than cheat at it for money. If you get caught and banned, well cry me a river, gutted."

I can only assume that his ethics are beyond reproach (as he indicated to Party) when it comes to $200 SNG's. Everything else must be fair game.

Regards,

IPP

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 07:12 AM

Thanks Mate.

Let me assure I am not from Moscow.

Secondly you need to turn up your piss take dectetor.

I spent an exchange year at LSU and in that time I saw lots of poeple playing Magic. To a man they were all uber nerds of a variety that one does not come across in the UK.

It was social capital amongst my peer group to take the piss out of these uber nerds as they were new and fantisticaly nerdy in our eyes.

My post you outline was just an extension of those sentiments which are unique to magic. My comments were not to be take literaly in the manner that you have done so.

I have never and will never cheat at poker online, and I would appreciate it if you removed this thread or at least apologized for it as it a massive accusation and totaly unjustified.

Also you say the same sitngo, you didnt play in the sitngo that I complained about so that is infact false information.

Perhaps you could rename your thread " A case study in why we need courts and due process to defend us against the law of the lynch mob"

However if I did ever cheat at party I would make sure of bringing the hand history to the attention of alerts@partypoker.com and posting said hand history on this forum. Which is of course exactly what I did in the sitngo you said you played in with me. Did your detector manage to pick that up.

Are you Freezy, is this your way of trying to get at me for me reporting you to party poker for chat client abuse.

Thanks again.

Cpt Kernow

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 10:17 AM

1st I did not say I played in the same Sit N Go. I said I played in a Sit N Go a day earlier where two players from Moscow where playing very suspicious and you were not one of the players in that game.

2nd I am not Freezy.

3rd . . . ethics are not situational. If you are going to make posts condoning cheating, then you are accountable for your own scum ball moral character.

I don't play MAGIC and I have never even seen it played. But I know that it is played for money. So how do you somehow justify cheating just because you think someone is a nerd?

And why I am suppose to then make the leap of faith that you would cheat if I were a nerd and I were playing Magic? But never cheat at online poker?

Give me a break.

Simon Diamond

06-29-2004, 10:26 AM

It was social capital amongst my peer group to take the piss out of these uber nerds as they were new and fantisticaly nerdy in our eyes.

"Me and me mates think those geeks are well sad. Innit."

Good one.

Simon

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 10:28 AM

The following is my original reply concerning your post about getting a refund from Party after being accused of cheating w/ a player from Moscow. My post clearly says that you were not one of the two players rather it warns the readers about playing $200 SNG's with 2 players from Moscow.

This was a dead issue until you made a post then bragging about cheating other people at cards for money.

It doesn't take a seeing eye dog to lead one to the irony in your two posts.

"I played in a 200 NL SNG tounrey on Party a couple of days ago where there were 2 guys from Moscow that sat next to each other and NEVER played a hand together. Even when down to 4 handed.

There were several complaints during that tourney also. Maybe the usernames were changed in this posting but they were different than the names in this post.

Both players had exactly the same playing style . . . ALLIN or FOLD. Nothing in between.

There were also comments from other players in the game that the same 2 had done the same thing in a tourney the night before

I reported it to Party Poker and they reported back that it did not appear suspsicious.

I am not paranoid. But I am also respectful of threats to my bankroll.

For the time being . . . I will get up from a $200 NL SNG if two players from Moscow are seated at the table. "

Regards,

IPP

Steven_Skunk

06-29-2004, 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I spent an exchange year at LSU and in that time I saw lots of poeple playing Magic. To a man they were all uber nerds of a variety that one does not come across in the UK.

It was social capital amongst my peer group to take the piss out of these uber nerds as they were new and fantisticaly nerdy in our eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey dude, sweet! Let me know where those magic nerds are, I am always looking for a game. I hear the nerds are easy pickings.

I haven't seen any nerds around here, but I am always looking out for them. One guy in my model train club told me he saw some nerds, but we never found them.

One time, I did see a group of men in Kansas City, that seemed to fit the description of nerds. Somebody told me they were "limeys" but I don't get it, they did not seem tropical at all. They all had gross, pasty skin; inbred, bulging, bug-eyes; they wore black socks and sandals, and plaid bermudas; they has little, stub noses. They were all walking around looking for "eel pie". And they smelled like farts.

Let me know about those nerds.

HUSKER'66

06-29-2004, 10:42 AM

IPP,

I have a question or two, and then a comment.

[ QUOTE ]
I responded that I had first hand experience w/ very supspicious betting/playing patterns w/ 2 players from Moscow in the same $200 SNG on party and that I would heretofore get up from the table if 2 players from Moscow were seated in my tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are you going to "heretofore get up from the table"? Are you sitting out, contacting support and demanding to be moved or receive a refund?

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure how to link to another post on 2+2, but the poster I am referring to is "cptkernow" and below is an excerpt of a post he made in the "News, Views, and Gossip" forum concerning the current WSOP 2nd place finisher being banned from MAGIC for cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I can only assume that his ethics are beyond reproach (as he indicated to Party) when it comes to $200 SNG's. Everything else must be fair game.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's awfully bold. If you've had a problem with this individual personally, then maybe I can see merit in PMing him and handling it that way.

But to come out and vaguely accuse him of low moral standards without any proof is.......pretty shitty.

Husker

Alobar

06-29-2004, 10:42 AM

how does one cheat at magic? with like card mechanics? (editors note: this is an honest question as I have never played and have only seen it played a couple times)

Oski

06-29-2004, 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
how does one cheat at magic? with like card mechanics? (editors note: this is an honest question as I have never played and have only seen it played a couple times)

[/ QUOTE ]

Some call it cheating, others call it ... magic.

daveymck

06-29-2004, 10:46 AM

In another thread there was somthing about card bending or somthing so you knew where and what certain card the opponant had.

What impact that has on the game I am unsure.

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 10:50 AM

I always take the last seat or two at a SNG so that I have an opportunity to rate the table. If I sit down next to last and a 2nd player from Moscow sits down, I simply get up before the tourney starts.

There is nothing bold about my post. He made a post bragging about cheating people at cards for money. There are not many lines to read between. I said he was posting about Magic. But I stand by my statement that "ETHICS ARE NOT SITUATIONAL".

Regards,

IPP

Oski

06-29-2004, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I always take the last seat or two at a SNG so that I have an opportunity to rate the table. If I sit down next to last and a 2nd player from Moscow sits down, I simply get up before the tourney starts.

There is nothing bold about my post. He made a post bragging about cheating people at cards for money. There are not many lines to read between. I said he was posting about Magic. But I stand by my statement that "ETHICS ARE NOT SITUATIONAL".

Regards,

IPP

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, common sense is situational, and it has failed you here.

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 10:53 AM

lol . . . should have said when I sit down 3rd from last. If I am next to last and someone else sits down I am stuck for the tourney.

But there have been many times that I take one of the last few seats and get up if I don't like how the table starts to fill out.

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:04 AM

I never said that I cheated at magic.

I just said i found the idea of someone else cheating at magic funny. See my original post:

"Any one who purposefully sets out to cheat at Magic the Gathering of the nerds is allready a hero in my eyes."

This was in a post about David Williams who was banned from playing magic.

I have and never will play magic. The idea of David Williams cheating at magic amuses me in the mental sense of me imaging some vegas card sharp sitting down with a bunch of uber nerds and taking all there money playing the nerdiest game ever which is of course magic.

That does not mean I condone that sort of behaviour. I enjoy watching films in which lots of people die and get shot stabbed ect etc. Dosnt mean I condone or take part in those activities myself does it.

Well done youve shot from the hip in a totaly unsubstantiated way and made yourself look a twat and a wanker.

Good job.

I still reckon you are Freezy.

Dilbert

06-29-2004, 11:13 AM

Where's Granny? Let her decide who is or is not a cheater.

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 11:16 AM

I think the title to my post was too harsh.

But don't expect to make a post on 2+2 condoning cheating (even figuartively as you say) without getting flamed.

For the record . . . I started playing $200 SNG's as an occasional break from the Party $15/30 games. I have only played a couple in the last few weeks after deciding that (1) I don't have the EV in those games that I do in 15/30 ring games and (2) I can better protect my bankroll by simply getting up from a 15/30 game on the rare occasion that I feel something is unusal in the way hands are being played.

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]

He made a post bragging about cheating people at cards for money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would like to assure everyone that I in no way made a post of this nature. Please feel free to read the thread that Internettwat is misquoting me from. Unlike him try reading the whole thread so you can put what I said into some context.

Go to the gossip forum and read the thread titled David Williams. I would link to it but have no idea how to do so.

Cheers

Cpt Kernow.

daveymck

06-29-2004, 11:21 AM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=781402&page=1&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#781402

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 11:24 AM

Can someone please post a link to his post. Call me strange . . . but I don't think there is a place on this forum for condoning cheating at cards for money.

It doesn't matter if the game is Magic.

It doesn't matter if it is figuartive which I have no reason to dispute.

It doesn't matter if the victims are nerds.

jeez

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:29 AM

You moron, you must be able to see that I didnt condone it. I just expressed amusement at the idea, as did several other posters, in a sardonic and sarcastic manner.

Big differance.

You have also failed totaly to apologize for you rampant and wild accusations and misreprsentations of my posts.

These are actual demonstratable actions that you have carried out and not subject to conjecture.

Your moral failings are self evident in this whole thread.

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:29 AM

How the feck do you do that.

I spent a least a minute trying to work it out for myself, I even read the FAQ. When I go to a specific thread the URL is allways www.twoplustwo.com. (http://www.twoplustwo.com.)

How do I find the url for a specific thread.

GWB

06-29-2004, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How the feck do you do that.

I spent a least a minute trying to work it out for myself, I even read the FAQ. When I go to a specific thread the URL is allways www.twoplustwo.com. (http://www.twoplustwo.com.)

How do I find the url for a specific thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to have the thread without the left border. Start here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=)

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:41 AM

Thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Punker

06-29-2004, 11:46 AM

At the risk of labelling myself an uber nerd and earning this guy "social capital" by "taking the piss out of me", basically, when you play Magic you use a lot of cards. Some cards are more designed for use at later stages, some are more designed for use at earlier stages. After the WSOP I read about Williams DQ, and it sounded like he was marking his cards to get some of the early use cards to the top of his own deck every time so he could be sure of drawing (and being able to use) them early.

While I have no idea if Cptpokernow would cheat at cards, he sure seems pretty immature to me.

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 11:47 AM

Are you delusional?

The only line I didn't copy out of your post was the 1st line. Tell me how that took anything out of context?

If the light bulb doesn't go off w/ you that cheating people at cards for money is wrong . . . then there isn't anything anyone could ever say to you to make you realize it.

Some things are grey in life. Others are black and white. This issue is black and white.

Why would I apologize for stating the obvious.

daveymck

06-29-2004, 11:50 AM

No all you have to do is right click on the thread you want and then copy Link then click on paste.

Using these forums without the left side navigation is a nightmare.

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 11:54 AM

Reasons for you to apologize.

1. Calling me a cheater with no evidence at all.

2. Calling me Stupid.

3. Failing to post earlier posts that put my subsequent post in context.

4. Saying that I bragged about cheating when I quite patently didnt.

5.Making quite obvious attempts to misrepresent me and slander my charachter.

Quite black and white.

After you have learnt the grace to apologize you should also attempt to take lessons in literal and figerative meaning.

Have you seen one other poster come out and support your position.

NO.

Please have the presence of mind to realize why and repent before digging your hole any deeper.

GWB

06-29-2004, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No all you have to do is right click on the thread you want and then copy Link then click on paste.

Using these forums without the left side navigation is a nightmare.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can do it your way also. I find the left side navigation a nuisance. Navigate from the Main Index (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=). Much easier to use.

Also, when you post a link use the URL code instead of posting a raw link like you did before.

An ugly raw link:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=788762&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1

InternetPokerPro

06-29-2004, 12:09 PM

"1. Calling me a cheater with no evidence at all."

You made the post which basically said Magic players deserved to be cheated out of their money because they are Nerds. If you choose to align yourself w/ those ethical standards . . . don't cry to me if you don't like the label you are associating yourself with.

2. Calling me Stupid.

You made a post about how you got a $200 refund from Party because someone accused you of cheating. (For the record . . . it sounds like you were justified in your complaint). But then you made the post that I referred to above basically justifying why Magic players should be cheated out of their money. There is a certain level of stupidity involved in making both posts on a public forum.

3. Failing to post earlier posts that put my subsequent post in context.

What I posted was not in conflict with anything else you posted on the matter.

4. Saying that I bragged about cheating when I quite patently didnt.

After you said you were being figuartive in your assertions about there being nothing wrong w/ cheating Magic players out of their money . . . I said I accept that. But it doesn't justify expousing the position.

5.Making quite obvious attempts to misrepresent me and slander my charachter.

Don't complain to me about self-inflicted injuries to your character. I am sure that in the right situation . . . you are of very high character.

As to how many people agree w/ me . . . why would my position on situational ethics being wrong be dicated by a poll of what others think?

Baulucky

06-29-2004, 12:12 PM

This thread is so very NERD and so very GAY.

Cptkernow

06-29-2004, 12:33 PM

In this situation your charachter obviously fails to attain any altitude what so ever.

You are patently in the wrong yet can in no way begin to admit it.

You are a weak man.

Colby818

06-29-2004, 04:04 PM

Yeah, as another guy who played Magic(boy, I really enjoy being referred to as an uber-geek), I'll chime in. There are a number of ways to improve your chances to win. Marking cards would be the simplest. Depending on how well organized the tournaments in question are run, you can also play most of the way through these tournaments with an illegal deck. This is because there are restrictions on the numbers of certain cards within the deck. Typically, at the end of these tournaments, and in some cases, even in the begining of these tournaments, the number of cards in the deck were counted and the types of cards viewed to ensure they are legal.

To clarify, I have never and would never cheat in any game. But, I am observant enough to have learned to recognize the backs of certain cards within my decks. How many of you guys have played poker over and over again with the same deck? Eventually, there's a slightly bent corner or a card that is arced further than the others or whatever. And consequently, you know what card is either the next to come or is in an opponents hands.

ddubois

06-29-2004, 09:30 PM

So you don't "condone" cheating at M:tG, but anyone who does it is a "hero in your eyes".

Riiight.

All then there is all this bravado about "uber-geeks", while posting on an internet forum about a card game.

You sir, are the most unintentionally funny man alive.

bigjay

06-29-2004, 09:56 PM

I rate this thread 10/10 on the unintentional comedy scale.

Cptkernow

06-30-2004, 06:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you don't "condone" cheating at M:tG, but anyone who does it is a "hero in your eyes".

Riiight.

All then there is all this bravado about "uber-geeks", while posting on an internet forum about a card game.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. So you think anyone who posts on this forum about the card game of poker is an uber geek.

2. You realy believe that I think anyone who cheats at magic is a literal heroe. Do ya Do ya.

Sad.

itsmarty

06-30-2004, 08:58 AM

Cptkernow

06-30-2004, 09:16 AM

Yea

I did talk to some girls, its amazing what effect the english accent has on american women. In between shagging fantastic amounts of your women folk me and my friends engaged in this thing called CONVERSATION.

Funnily enough these converstions revolved around our experiences and perceptions of America. One of these percpetions was the ture UBERness of the american nerd and how these nerds all played magic.

I take it from the overly aggresive nature of your post that you must play magic.

How does that go down with the chicks?

itsmarty

06-30-2004, 03:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Funnily enough these converstions revolved around our experiences and perceptions of America. One of these percpetions was the ture UBERness of the american nerd and how these nerds all played magic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, making fun of nerds and then sitting around talking about it. You must be a devil with the ladies.

[ QUOTE ]
I take it from the overly aggresive nature of your post that you must play magic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a time or two with my kids, along with seemingly every other card or board game on the planet. While we do that, I try and teach them not to be the kind of person who would treat people in the manner you describe.

Martin

gabyyyyy

06-30-2004, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Wow, making fun of nerds and then sitting around talking about it. You must be a devil with the ladies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahahahahha. This guy CPT is like a super dooper loser. Anyone who uses the term "uber-nerd" is a big fat loser, with an L on his forehead.

Let us know if you get laid by the age of 40 CPT.

Oski

06-30-2004, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Let us know if you get laid by the age of 40 CPT.

[/ QUOTE ]

P.M. him your address - that will greatly increase his chances.

Oski

06-30-2004, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I spent an exchange year at LSU and in that time I saw lots of poeple playing Magic. To a man they were all uber nerds of a variety that one does not come across in the UK.

It was social capital amongst my peer group to take the piss out of these uber nerds as they were new and fantisticaly nerdy in our eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey dude, sweet! Let me know where those magic nerds are, I am always looking for a game. I hear the nerds are easy pickings.

I haven't seen any nerds around here, but I am always looking out for them. One guy in my model train club told me he saw some nerds, but we never found them.

One time, I did see a group of men in Kansas City, that seemed to fit the description of nerds. Somebody told me they were "limeys" but I don't get it, they did not seem tropical at all. They all had gross, pasty skin; inbred, bulging, bug-eyes; they wore black socks and sandals, and plaid bermudas; they has little, stub noses. They were all walking around looking for "eel pie". And they smelled like farts.

Let me know about those nerds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Magic seems to have hit the big time: Not only does it have its first Hooligan (CPT), but its got groupies as well.

Syntax

06-30-2004, 05:40 PM

I remember his original thread and I remember replying that I think Party had made a mistake. He was an active participation in the "abuse". Up untill that, everyone was like "good job party". I remember Pro's response too.

Excellent pick up on this second response InternetPokerPro!!!!