where'd everyone go?--9-18 error

i have KQo in the big blind, 1, 2, 3, 4 people limp and i knock.


the flop is QAA. hmmmm. i check and it gets checked around.


the turn is another A. i bet and they all fold.


whoops.


any comments?

You know what you did wrong, but I'll reinforce it for you...


WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU BET??????


Happy now?


Making the reasonable assumption that no ace is out there, you have them all drawing dead. Worst case is a chop. Let someone catch a jack or 10 or whatever and take their money on the river. No card can hurt you. You are superman. Sit chilly here.

Mike - 2 errors here:


1) you can't knock - you have 20 points in your hand. You need 10 or less to knock


2) I would bet the flop. There are too many free cards to ruin your hand, esp. if the players are apt to be playing broadway cards or small pairs.

They can't call, but there's no 2nd best hand for them to make, either. You chop if a K hits against any K, and a Q probably keeps you honest anyway. Bet and pick up the pot.


3) Turn bet? well, sure, maybe, depends on the opponents, and I trust you considered inducing a bluff vs. letting them call down your possible bluff. I think you were doomed to win nothing on the turn and river. C'est la vie.


Good luck.


Dan Z.

"2) I would bet the flop."


i normally do, but i was trying to checkraise the flop. i was also genuinely a little scared of an ace since these players will play any ace from any position.


"3) Turn bet? well, sure, maybe, depends on the opponents, and I trust you considered inducing a bluff vs. letting them call down your possible bluff."


no i didnt really think at all when i bet. i guess what i was hoping was that a smaller pocket pair would call me down. apparently no one had even that because i think that they would have. i think clarkmeister hit it on the head when he says this is truly an awful bet.

I'd stil bet the turn and hope to get called by any pocket pair based on Mike's description of the game. You can't make money if you don't bet.

what is your plan if you are raised? by someone representing (or slowplaying) an Ace? I think there is a lot of psychology involved in these type situations. Without dead certain reads here I think you are risking a lot for very little gain by betting.

Mike,


On check-raising the flop, if someone bets, they will not call your raise with a worse hand, except a worse queen, which they may call with.


Since you describe the games as loose and passive (and it is a 9/18 game), players will tend to call more and bluff less, you need to bet your hand a lot. Your check-raise may end the hand right there, where someone would call with a Q all the way, or a lesser hand to see the turn.


You do not need to chk-raise to make calling with a lesser hand a big FTOP error by your opponents.


On the turn, you said you did consider that they would likely call with a smaller pocket pair. So betting is probably correct, as this call with a pair is tantamount to them reading you for a bluff - you did consider what I mentioned.


Good luck.


Dan Z.

If you check the turn and somebody else bets, are you going to call? Of course. And then you'll check and call again on the river.


So what am I risking? A: one extra big bet


What am I gaining? 2.5 big bets in the pot pre-flop and any additional bets from callers.


That doesn't sound like I'm risking a lot. I don't have any fear of risking one extra big bet to win a pot even if it isn't a very big pot.