Missed a thin value bet?

[mmcd]

Very good 75-150 HOE. Holdem is going 5 or 6 handed. I raise the button w/ 44 and get called by a loose player in the sb.

Flop: 7 6 3 rainbow

check bet call

Turn: Q same action

River: 8

He hesitates takes out 6 chips, and looks like he wants to bet. After about 15-20 seconds, he finally checks. It seems pretty clear to me that he wants a cheap showdown, maybe a big ace, maybe pocket deuces. It could also be a 6, because I think this guy is too passive to checkraise the flop there, or take the lead. I think an attempt at a river checkraise w/ 10-9 is completely out of the question because of the ragged board and the liklihood that I'll check behind. I showdown and he turns up a suited A-3 (which I am 99.9% sure he pays off with) I'm just wondering if the show he put on at the river turned my free showdown hand (which was at least partly my intention when betting the turn) into a thin value bet?

[Clarkmeister]

Yeah, that's a bet. That is one of the most reliable tells out there. He doesn't want to call, but intends to call, so he tries to scare you into giving him the free showdown. The best part is that you use this information to never bluff and value bet when you have something.

[Robb]

Hi Clarkmeister,

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's a bet. That is one of the most reliable tells out there. He doesn't want to call, but intends to call, so he tries to scare you into giving him the free showdown. The best part is that you use this information to never bluff and value bet when you have something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.
Would you agree that the type of player determines how strong that hand is with which he/she is trying to induce the bluff?

The weaker players, relatively, may pull that move with higher pairs than the lowest on board. The better players may want you to bet if they have the 8 or 7 or even six knowing you may have Ace big or A3 or A6.

Regards,
Jamie

[mmcd]

I definately knew he was trying for the cheap showdown, but I thought he could be doing that with some hands that have me beat, (i.e. a 6 pocket 5s or maybe even a badly misplayed 7 after getting hit with 2 overcards) so a 3, 22 and a big ace pay me off and I lose a bet the rest of the time. I think he might have payed off with a bad ace there, but I'm not too sure. I had left the game for about 9 hours to get some sleep, and when I came back it looked like the guy was stuck pretty good. He seemed to be on the non-aggressive variety of tilt, but I think he probably 3 bets a big ace preflop so that hand seemed somewhat less likely.

[Tosh]

Maybe this a stupid question, but without all that messing around with chips and obvious attempt to scare out a bet. Would this still be a river bet ?

[mmcd]

Tosh,

w/o his river antics I would definately check. After a quick river check by him, my hand is probably no good about 80% of the time I am called