Party 15/30 bankroll

[34TheTruth34]

Question for the party 15/30 players out there: how big of a bankroll do you need in order to play 4 tables of 15/30 on Party? Assume a winning poker player who's never played this particular game before. Thanks

[Kevin J]

Theoretically speaking, you don't need any larger of a "total" bankroll. Of course, you WILL need a larger session bankroll. I like to keep a minimum of 150-200 big bets online. But I'm set up to where I can quickly add if I need to.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey 34,

I'm one of the more "bigger bankroll" minded posters here, so I suspect most will say lower than me, but I always tell people $15k minimum.

GoT

[Tyler Durden]

What about two tables?

[NabO]

I play 15-30 on party too and i have a 9000$ bankroll. But i wonder if it's enough, i think so but i'm not sure.

[Diplomatdcm]

I say 18K min.
Dave

[Tosh]

At least 12k.

[mtdurham]

Just because you are playing 4 tables at once doesn't mean you need a larger bankroll.

The whole point of a bankroll is that you don't go bankrupt over the course of downswings. You shouldn't go through bigger downswings just because you are playing 4 tables at once. In fact, you're downswings in terms of hours will be much less frequent BECAUSE you're playing so many more hands.

The only reason you may have downswings a little more frequently is if you don't play well because you are overextending yourself by trying to play more tables then you are capable of playing well at.

Does anyone remember that in Statistics you divide by n when figuring out standard deviation? As n gets larger your deviation gets smaller...

n in this case is the number of hands you're playing, standard deviation is the variance in your bankroll.

[ZeeJustin]

Here is a question you should answer: What % risk of ruin are you willing to take?

Another relevant question is how much you expect to average per hour, or what you currently average in your current game.

If you answer these questions, we can give you a much more accurate answer.

If it were me, I would not play exclusively 15/30 with out at least $12,000.

[1800GAMBLER]

$18k.

[NotReady]

WR------------SD-----------SD ^ 2---------2 * WR
$30.00------$360.00-----129600-----------60-----

----s^2/2u-------r-------------- ln r
-------2160---------0.10%------- -6.9078

<font color="red"> Bankroll$ BankrollBBs
$14,921 497.36 </font>

[bicyclekick]

I think one thing that should be at least noted...is that you also need the mental ability to handle the swings in terms of $$$ moving around. David Ross talked about this in his early days quite a bit...

I'm just glad I played a ton at hte lower limits and understood what a big loosing streak feels like. I had a -130bb day last week at the 15/30 and I just shrugged it off. YOu can't thnik about the 4000 that just left your account. It was 133BB and you have the Bankroll so dont worry about it. you just have to keep playin your A game. I made 3k 2 days in a row just a few days after this. It's a great game, just be ready to take some hits.

I don't wanna talk like I really know the game, but I think I've played it enough to have a feel for how things go.

[3rdCheckRaise]

12k+ should be enough but i keep 20K.

[7Dave]

Yes, I think 300 BB wont be enough. I've heard several (winning?) players loosing around 300 BB (astro, myself and some other guys) and to feel "comfortable" I'd say at least 450 BB.

/d

[stoxtrader]

bankroll is and always will be a personal decision. Keep as little as 4 buy-ins if you are ready and willing to add to it.

If you need seperate mental accounts, then 300 BB is a starting point.

Factors like win-rate, whether poker is your sole source of income, how much the money means to you, among others play a heavy role.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I havent had a one day loss as bad as 130BB, but certainly 70-80BB losses. As Bike says, that's just the nature of the fast action, highly aggressive (and profitable) game.

I keep $30k ready to go. Mentally, I feel I need to be well-healed to enter to 15-30 PP battle, to handle the inevitable 200-300 BB downswings.

Best Wishes and Good Luck,

Joe

[Buckshot]

Personally, I'm a low bankroll guy. I've kept as little as $1,000 on average per week, but I've also had as much as $15,000.

Normally, like now, I don't keep more than $5,000 at Party.

~stephen

[scalafab]

Just being curious:for a winning poker player at party 15-30 that will need 18k of the bankroll to be safe with the downswings,how much is the yearly projected winning ,or income?Just a ballpark. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Just being curious:for a winning poker player at party 15-30 that will need 18k of the bankroll to be safe with the downswings,how much is the yearly projected winning ,or income?Just a ballpark. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hours per day average?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Just being curious:for a winning poker player at party 15-30 that will need 18k of the bankroll to be safe with the downswings,how much is the yearly projected winning ,or income?Just a ballpark. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ballpark, $850,000, if he's good.

[1800GAMBLER]

... and able to play 42 hours a week over 8 tables winning 2.5bb/100h /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[nykenny]

8K

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I think 300 BB wont be enough. I've heard several (winning?) players loosing around 300 BB (astro, myself and some other guys) and to feel "comfortable" I'd say at least 450 BB.

/d

[/ QUOTE ]

300BB is very very large sum to lose in a down swing. you might have tilt issue (skill-tilt or discipline-tilt) that you are not aware of...

Kenny

[1800GAMBLER]

laff. It's unreal that variance hasn't caught up with you yet, give it time.

[1800GAMBLER]

I had a 400bb downfall and i'm winning 2.5b/100h. I don't have a tilt issue.

[astroglide]

i have addressed this in another thread, but here goes again, probably to be ignored again.

you are a delusional moron if you think that you have not already experienced losing streaks or large downswings. as is quite evident by your poker log, you will play sessions well in excess of 16 hours in an attempt to break even for an individual session. most players will not go nearly that far. your 20 hour +200 session could easily be a -300bb downswing over several sessions followed up by winning sessions for any other player.

this month alone you have a 28 hour and a 16 hour session. you also have 5 modest winning sessions (around the same as a "typical" 1 hour session win) around the 8 hour mark. you have pronounced emotional problems if you are completely unable to quit when down, and you are high if you think that you haven't had as bad (or worse) downswings as anybody else because of your ridiculous "must break even" session lengths.

in short, you do not have any right to comment on variance or emotional issues as it relates to poker unless you actually intend to be a gigantic hypocrite.

1800GAMBLER experiences "higher variance" and "bigger downswings" than you because he has the psychological constitution to call it a night whether he's winning or losing. that makes you worse, not better, and certainly doesn't put you in a position to pass negative judgements.

[turnipmonster]

btw jay, I assume you recovered from that? nice work.

--turnipmonster

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
as is quite evident by your poker log, you will play sessions well in excess of 16 hours in an attempt to break even for an individual session. most players will not go nearly that far. your 20 hour +200 session could easily be a -300bb downswing over several sessions followed up by winning sessions for any other player.


[/ QUOTE ]

don't put words in my mouth astro. my poker log doesn't say that or anything that you claim it says. i play until i feel like to stop. sometimes i quit at a small loss, sometimes big (as big as 2700, in 2hrs). if u think just because i am losing i will go on to play long sessions, then you are a moron.

my log shows aggregate poker sessions, so i don't suggest u open your mouth about my 20hr sessions or 16hr sessions before you know me like you claim to. a 28hr session on the log just means i log at the end of 28 accumulating hours of poker, there can be many breaks in between, which can in turn be counted as many small sessions.

and no, not in those sessions have I had more than 200BB swing. but i don't deny that a down swing of many sessions could account for more than 150BB.

just because i let everyone taking a peek at my poker log, it doesn't mean i welcome you to post my results, LOL. and by the way, i play irregular hours because i have a job, and many other things to attend, unlike (though i envy) the many of you who just plays poker all the time.

and astro please refrain from responding to my post if you don't have anything constructive to say. my response to 1800 was not out of sarcasim, and was none of your business.

but again, maybe you think you are better than everyone else. but i doubt, at least you are impolite and rude beyond my taste.

Kenny

[astroglide]

don't put words in my mouth astro

i didn't

my poker log doesn't say that or anything that you claim it says

yes, it does

i play until i feel like to stop

and you apparently only feel like stopping when you are winning. either that, or it's a coincidence over a long period of months that you "happen" to quit after 1 hour with a 30bb win and play extensive amounts of hours when you don't.

my log shows aggregate poker sessions, so i don't suggest u open your mouth about my 20hr sessions or 16hr sessions before you know me like you claim to. a 28hr session on the log just means i log at the end of 28 accumulating hours of poker, there can be many breaks in between, which can in turn be counted as many small sessions.

then they're inaccurate for the purposes of taxation. the general point is that you have gone on record multiple times as saying that you virtually never have losing sessions and never have losing streaks, and from your results/hours it is quite painfully obvious that you will not stop playing until you have won. that is a glitch, and it denotes a lack of understanding the "long-term" concept.

i play irregular hours because i have a job, and many other things to attend, unlike (though i envy) the many of you who just plays poker all the time.

i have a full-time job and a consulting business

please refrain from responding to my post if you don't have anything constructive to say. my response to 1800 was not out of sarcasim, and was none of your business.

it was highly constructive. your post to 1800 was made for everyone here to see. i am a part of everyone, therefore it is my business. if you wished for it to be private, you should have used a private message.

maybe you think you are better than everyone else

maybe, but i would contend that it's to a much lesser degree than you.

get your head out of the clouds and understand that most people don't design sessions around their ego. they have an hourly rate, they log hours, and those hours end up making that hourly rate. this is why "$XX quests" are generally useless - a point ulysses/el diablo poignantly made (although most people seemed to miss it) with his "hours quest".

[nykenny]

astro,

can i read your poker log and make fun of you?

anyway, i agree my log looks ugly. the log's purpose is to serve me some usful information, and it has, i am glad.

i hate to argue with you, or anyone. i am nice on the tables, and nice in person. if it is hard for you to be at least polite and calm, then i feel sorry for you.

poker is very subjective, all the winning players i know play differently; that's why i believe i am entitled of my opinion and don't deserve bad mouthing and personal attacks for voicing it.

so anyway, i merely said 1800 might have tilting issue, if he disagrees or you know him well enough to disagree for him, then that's fine. i am happy at that too. nowhere in my post did i say i am the best poker player here or anywhere and that i don't ever go on tilt and that i have a perfect poker records, so why were you so excited?

maybe you have a problem with me. if that's the case, i can understand.

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a 400bb downfall and i'm winning 2.5b/100h. I don't have a tilt issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

1800,

that's very good to hear(that you don't have a tilt issue). and i am sorry about your big down swing, i guess party 15/30 can be pretty wild...

hope you have recovered, if not, soon.

kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
laff. It's unreal that variance hasn't caught up with you yet, give it time.

[/ QUOTE ]

it has, losing 4800 in 4 sessions totaling 8hrs in one day span was painful, downslide of 5K+ also was depressing. i am fortunate so far not to experience higher downswings, thankfully. but it could surely happen. then i will revise my $8K B/R requirement for online 15/30 /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Kenny

[astroglide]

i'm not making fun of your results, i'm making fun of your delusional misinterpretation of them.

you cannot assert that you do not have losing sessions/streaks if you will play indefinitely when you're stuck. when that is the case, you have a completely different definition of the term "session" and it is an invalid point of reference (you would only be qualified to discuss hourly rates, not sessions/swings/variance). you have been told that many times by many people, but you continue to make the same assertions.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not making fun of your results, i'm making fun of your delusional misinterpretation of them.

you cannot assert that you do not have losing sessions/streaks if you will play indefinitely when you're stuck. when that is the case, you have a completely different definition of the term "session" and it is an invalid point of reference (you would only be qualified to discuss hourly rates, not sessions/swings/variance). you have been told that many times by many people, but you continue to make the same assertions.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok fine. i might be off on sesssion / swing history or outlook of my own. i appologize if my half jokingly posts of my own results or opinion that of offended anyone.

but in this particular thread, i only intended to remind 1800 that tilt could have been an issue, and since he clarified, and i blieved that he didn't have a tilt issue, i am all the happier.

so should everyone else. the topic is not about me, or my poker well-being. but i thank anyone who was concerned.

Kenny

[bobbyi]

Kenny, can you explain the terms "skill tilt" and "discipline tilt"? I'm confused about what the former would refer to, since I think of tilt as inherently being a discipline issue. Thanks.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally, like now, I don't keep more than $5,000 at Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or more than $141. Olé!!!

[astroglide]

okay, that's a lol

[Boopotts]

Everyone who asks this question should first be required to take some time and figure out their standard deviation.