Concerning PT Stat?

[Kevin J]

I'm trying to assess my blind play in steal situations and I'm not sure if I found a major problem.. When I use the filter "Steal attempted & call/re-raised heads-up", it shows I do very poorly. I am losing 1.24 bb/100 hands. I should point out that while I have over 7500 total hands logged into pokertracker, only 22 hands are in this particular situation. Of course, 22 hands is a laughable sample size, however I do feel even this small amount shows I am CLEARLY losing $$ here. My question is, what's normal? Should I be satisfied saving a portion of my blinds? Should I actually be ahead if I played really well heads-up? Against true stealers, I would think so.

While I'm at it, what about this stat... I've posted $9,445.00 in big blinds, and I'm stuck -$5,347.00 from this position. From the sb, $5,135.00 posted and down $818.00 from that position. Ok, poor, or terrible? I'd appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.

[Senor Choppy]

What limits are you playing? I'm guessing 10/20 or 5/10 considering how little you've lost from the sb.

I have around 80k hands in PT for 15/30 and my numbers are $156,200 posted in the big blind, with a loss of $63,257. In the small blind I've posted $96,250, with a loss of $46,084.

FWIW, I play incredibly tight in both blinds, folding the sb to a steal almost 80% of the time, and folding the bb 65% of the time.

[Kevin J]

Thanks senor. My stats are mostly from 15-30 also. Your total loss from the blinds seems fractionally much smaller than mine. I also play pretty tight from the sb for raises (fold 78%). Not so tight from the bb against steals, though (fold 64%).

What's funny is that a friend of mine thought my blind results were terrific. But I'm not sure how much you SHOULD lose from the blinds. To be honest, I never even thought about it until I got pokertracker and started playing online. My own sense is that I could be playing much better. Both against steals and when I'm in steal position. Thanks again.

[astroglide]

different strokes. here's from 80k of my hands:

sb: fold 66%, -59k
bb: fold 60%, -53k

looks like i should defend less in the sb. i also defend any two broadway cards in the bb from any raise. i folded ATo to one of your utg raises last night, but that's honestly the only time i can recall doing something like that. i defend any two suited if there's 1 cold caller, etc.

[Enon]

With about 60k hands at 15/30 and also playing very tight from the blinds here's my stats:

SB: Posted 70k, -40k (Folded 81%)
BB: Posted 110k -51k (Folded 65%)

[Kevin J]

This sounds very close to where I'm at. If you don't mind my asking, how do you do against steal raises heads-up?

[Senor Choppy]

Whatever you're doing in the sb, keep doing it /images/graemlins/smile.gif I think once you get more hands in PT, your numbers will even out some.

I have no idea what's good or bad from the blinds, but I feel like my play is much tighter than is optimal. I know I play almost flawlessly against tight, solid opponents, but when the LAG player at the table raises from the cutoff and I've got K8s or A3o in the big blind, I feel pretty lost. When in doubt, I usually fold, which is often.

[Senor Choppy]

I think you could get away from a lot of hands against tight, early raisers using PT notes. When someone has a PFR of 10 or less and they're UTG, chances are pretty good that all the mediocre broadway hands are in trouble.

[Dav123]

When analyzing this, I would look at it this way: Don't count your posted BB when judging your results. With your stats I would say that you were down .24BB when you called or reraised. As you said this sample size is laughably small. Therefore, unless you think of something conceptually that you are doing wrong I would keep playing the same as you have been in this situation. Then, after this situation comes up a couple hundred times, look at the stats again and analyze. If you change something now and look again 22 hands later, all you'll have is 2 sample sizes that are way too small for any meaningful analysis.

The one thing PT has taught me more than anything is that poker has extreme fluctuations and it takes a very large sample size before anything useful can be gleaned from the statistics.

[DeeJ]

I am also very concerned about my blind play. Unhelpfully I don't have my stats to hand here but I am sure I suck. Sure, I'm v tight to early PFR but CO/Button steals when I've got JT? Or A8? Or 76s?

My feeling is you need to quickly know the player who is on your right to determine their propensity to steal. Of course, when you react accordingly the whole dynamic changes (and then I think I still suck /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm v tight to early PFR but CO/Button steals when I've got JT? Or A8? Or 76s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rightly or wrongly, I defend with all three of those. I might reraise with A8 if the guy plays weak-tight post-flop.

My blinds 23k hands
BB: posted 43.3k, lost: 19.4k, fold to steal:56%
SB: posted 29k, lost: 10.7k, fold to steal 75%

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
different strokes. here's from 80k of my hands:

sb: fold 66%, -59k
bb: fold 60%, -53k

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, you are doing better in the BB than the SB, and much better in the BB than other posters - biggest factor maybe strong post-flop play?

[Kevin J]

[ QUOTE ]
BB: posted 43.3k, lost: 19.4k, fold to steal:56%

[/ QUOTE ]


This seems VERY impressive to me! You're losing well less than half of what you are required to post from the bb. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty darn good.

[ QUOTE ]
Rightly or wrongly, I defend with all three of those. I might reraise with A8 if the guy plays weak-tight post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just want to make sure. You ARE talking about steal-attempts here, right? You don't call legitimate raises with A8o, do you?

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
This seems VERY impressive to me! You're losing well less than half of what you are required to post from the bb. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty darn good

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always thought my blind play to be shaky.

Just so I put this in terms I think I understand better, I did the math for each poster's stats per hand - so long as most of us play 9 or 10 handed most of the time it should be good, if someone has lots of short handed games in their stats its not comparing apples to apples

Me: BB: -84c/hand SB: -46c/hand
Enon: bb: -85c/hand SB: -66c/hand
Astro: bb: -66c/hand (wow!) SB: -74c/hand
Senor: BB: -78c/hand SB: -57c/hand
Kevin: BB: - 71c/hand SB: -11c/hand (wow!)

Would this be a better way to look at it?

My BB over 2900 hands -.22BB/hand
my SB over 2900 hands - .12BB/hand


[ QUOTE ]
Just want to make sure. You ARE talking about steal-attempts here, right? You don't call legitimate raises with A8o, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

A8o is a turbo muck to any type of legitimate raise.
JTo I probably want 7:1 closing the action to call a raise.
67s I think about the same. If I'm playing badly I probably call getting 5:1 (both of these with SB money in pot, so 5.5:1 and 7.5:1 I guess...)

[TXTiger]

Me: BB: -84c/hand SB: -46c/hand
Enon: bb: -85c/hand SB: -66c/hand
Astro: bb: -66c/hand (wow!) SB: -74c/hand
Senor: BB: -78c/hand SB: -57c/hand
Kevin: BB: - 71c/hand SB: -11c/hand (wow!)

Would this be a better way to look at it?

My BB over 2900 hands -.22BB/hand
my SB over 2900 hands - .12BB/hand




I prefer the BB/hand
My Stats - comments welcomed - about 2500 hands per position

SB: -0.11 BB/hand VPP 49.2 PFR 5.41 folded to steal 69.5
BB: -0.16 BB/hand VPP 24.9 PFR 7.45 " " 46.6

[astroglide]

i dunno. i know that i play too loose in the sb, and i also know that i reraise the hell out of stealers from the bb. possibly more than i should, but i'm sure it has ancillary benefits.

i think my plan for now will be to continue reraising the hell out of my bb and start folding the hell out of my sb.