Playing regular poker with you're friends, do you help them improve?

[qazplok]

If any of you guys play weekly or regular poker games with friends of yours, do you help or advice them on their playing ( telling them not to play K4o ) knowing that it may affect how much money you make, or do you continue to take their money guilt free?

[Songwind]

I think it depends on how much money (if any) you play for.

Playing any game against people of similar or even superior skill usually results in larger gains in your own skill, compared to someone you have little to no problem with.

[ QUOTE ]
If any of you guys play weekly or regular poker games with friends of yours, do you help or advice them on their playing ( telling them not to play K4o ) knowing that it may affect how much money you make, or do you continue to take their money guilt free?

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[pokerraja]

I play dumb. life is all about deception. Anyways people always like the dumb guy! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[sfer]

I don't offer but I'll help if they ask. The smart ones have figured out that a bad night for me is doubling my buy-in, so they have requested and are getting some tutoring. My rotating home game is friendly (and meaningless money-wise for me--like a $25 buy-in) and much more about having fun than extracting the maximum. Plus, if I can get a couple of them playing well, over the long run I'll be better off if we challenge each other.

[EverettKings]

Unless you suck at everything in life and have only your home poker game to beat /images/graemlins/wink.gif, helping your friends play better just makes the game more fun. I mean I don't feel ultra-victorious when a newbie friend of mine calls down my AA with Queen high.

Seriously, the stakes in home games (mine, at least) are low enough that I'm not really trying to make money. I'm not trying to lose, but I don't mind trying to suck out a 2-outer every now and then for a chance to rub it in my good friend's face /images/graemlins/grin.gif. In the long run I'm not profiting monetarily when I pay 2 bucks for a one-in-20 shot at a $4 pot, but I'm playing for kicks.

And I get a lot fewer kicks when I see my buddy sitting and not enjoying himself cause I always take his money. I'm not saying you should dump cash to your friends so that they keep playing, but at least make the game fun for them somehow.

[Baulucky]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you should dump cash to your friends so that they keep playing, but at least make the game fun for them somehow.


[/ QUOTE ]

I won't play any game competitively with "friends". I have lost many "friends" by "playing" for money at dominoes, chess, backgammon. There is a conflict between "friendship" and money. Money rules more often than not.

That's why I love online poker: You don't even have to watch the face of your "clients".

[manpower]

Not only do I try and teach my friends, I also encourage them to play online once they are good enough. Why? Because the more money my friends have, the more often they buy me drinks.

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Ponks]

Sounds exactly like my game. They all know I'm doing real well on the internet, and they are all interested in the game. Everytime everyone folds against me, they always ask to see my cards. I usually show em, I dont really care that much. We usually buyin with $5 and play $.20/$.40 so we're all just having a good time. One guy yesterday was trying out a new style, he called it the Sam Farha, where he plays every hand. I was like yah, good idea that might work out well for you. (He's a absolutely horrible post-flop too) Anyways he actually broke even last night so I'm thinking he's gonna be doing this for a while now.

While I dont like taking my friends money, they gotta learn somehow, and I'll help them somewhat, but I'm not gonna lay out exactly how I play to them. Now if I played a bigger game with higher limits, I definitely would never show my cards or give any advice at all.
Ponks

[Sundevils21]

I help my friends. I've even shared this board with one who was really looking to improve and expand his game. If they ever become better than I am, I won't play them anymore... no sweat off my back.

[bodien21]

Ive found that some of my friends that i play with weekly, I have met only through the game. So im not worried about losing their friendship if i often beat them. So even though we are "friends" are motives are still the same: to win. Even though its a semi-relaxed atmosphere, we'll joke around- but the pots can get to a resonable size that you can lose alot of money by giving advice or telling them how you play. However, i agree with most of the responses on here- if the stakes are low enough, it shouldnt matter giving them the odd tip. But remember, they can buy all the books or read all the articles on the internet like you have to become a better player as well.

[Michael Davis]

Honestly, I think this is a flaw in somebody's thinking. Too much ego involved, I think. (I'm not accusing you.)

I have friends who are very good at poker. We often play cutthroat cards, including heads up. Sure, are egos are worth more than the money, but we can all accept getting outplayed. What happens at the poker tables stays there if you are dealing with rational folks.

By the way, on the rare occasions we are at the same table in a B&M room, watch out if we actually play a hand against one another. No softplaying here.

-Michael

[Yarney]

I have been hosting a home game once a week since I started playing a year ago. It is a pretty fierce game and we play the strongest games we can. However, there are three of us that have been playing together since the beginning (we all learned the game together) and we genuinely help each other out. However, at the table it is still every man for himself in a big way.

-Yarney

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a conflict between "friendship" and money.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. I played some baby limits live a few days ago and invited a friend along. One hand I flopped TPTK, turned trips, and he called me an ass because we were heads-up and I was betting the whole way.

Before that he got upset because I was dealt Q5o after 2 orbits of 0% VPIP and said: "great.. another awesome hand" and he folded A9 because I was to his left and he thought I had a monster. Yes... I'm going to verbally announce to the table that I have a monster when I haven't seen a flop in almost an hour. Brilliant.

Needless to say, I won't invite any friends to player poker again. I'll take their money if invited, but I won't do the inviting myself. It's not worth it.

[Peter]

With the friends I play with, I always try and help them when asked. I'm the reason they started to play, so I might as well help them out. Also, we play really low stakes.
Most of the guys don't really listen to my advice anyway, they just want to gamble /images/graemlins/grin.gif . There's one person who does listen, he's the thoughest guy to play against strategically, but he is quite easy to read in his mannerisms. This is great fun for me, because it's the only place where I can play live, so it's the only place where I can practice reading tells.

Peter

[qazplok]

Obviously you play to win the game, or else why play at all. I come to make as much money as possible. But when i see my friends ( who are not good players) make poor plays, i feel bad.

I dont consider myself to be a stud, but i feel that im the most talented player at our game, and a couple of guys know that im the "table expert". There are the ones i like to help. The ones who play on a whim and think they know the game and feel as if they dont need my help, i watch them play poorly with no hard feelings.

[daryn]

come on.. you don't have to play.

[theghost]

In a friendly home game I think part of the key is playing for stakes that won't really hurt anybody - than you can remorselessly play your A-game against your friends.

As far as advice goes, I'm willing to turn-on any friend who asks to the resources that I use; they are my friends, after all /images/graemlins/wink.gif

If they are willing to do the homework, they can reap the benefits.

[wop squad]

i play every week with my friends, usually a $40 NL tourney. we are always trying to improve each others games.

although i love playin in weak games at a casino, or online, who wants to take all of their friends' money. The better they are, the better your game will get, and that will translate into more $$$$ elsewhere.

[bernie]

If they don't ask me for advice, I don't say a damn thing. If they ask me, I'll talk to 'em more in depth away from the table, at a different time.

Giving unsolicited advice in a game, any game, isn't a great idea. For a wide variety of reasons.

b

[LetsRock]

IF we were friends before poker, then I'll help them if thay want it. I they became friends through poker, they're on their own. I play in 2 groups - one of each. If someone in my more serious game asked for help, I probably would, but I don't go offering advice in that game. The other game is more of a drunkfest than poker, but they enjoy trying to take me down.

[SlyR]

I learned a lot by playing with my friends. Table talk was allowed to a certain extent; we found that it adds to the fun when you can discuss why you played the way you did during a hand. At low stakes, it doesn't hurt the game much. After all, the weakies will remain weaker than you even after receiving a pointer here and there. Often, the stronger players in our game would make a remark like "Say, you know what Caro has to say about betting with force like that, don't you?" with a bit of a smirk, as if we were almost mocking the advice in the books. The guys who didn't read about the game would just dismiss the comments as smart-ass remarks and only tentatively take them to heart. Basically, the strong players in our game never actually sought to offer solid advice; but the amount of table talk that was heard must have rubbed off a little occassionally. No big thing.

[Ralph Wiggum]

For those friends who don't know about my poker hobby:
No, I never offer advice (nor do they need to know about my poker obsession), but I don't play to clean out my friends either. We play all stupid sorts of made up of card games in addition to Holdem. It's best for my BB/100 they remain clueless about my shark-like poker ability (relatively speaking). The last thing I'd want is to have to deal with another good player in a serious game online or live, and it'd be stupid on my part if it's one that I created. There's usually a friend who sees himself as a table-tutor (usually for ego purposes), and I usually let him do the talking. I think the rest of the guys aren't looking to specialize in poker (so why encourage them?), and they just want to socialize and have a good time.

For the friends I play with who know the game, and know that I know the game:
No, we just play for fun, and we LAG it up quite a bit. It's never much money, so we might as well play for fun, and have a good time, since at most it's only like 3 of us playing among a table of fish. There's rarely a hand in these games that's noteworthy enough to really have a serious strategy discussion.

Finally, if you're going into these home games with friends to clean them out of beer money/lunch money, then maybe you should just stick with more serious games. You can't be winning a significant chunk of change from these guys, and why would you want to clean out your friends anyways? They're just there to have some fun, and they won't like seeing you constantly cleaning them out.

[Lawrence Ng]

This is a very interesting post and a subject that has also arisen in my mind as of late.

A good friend of mine and I play together. My mentality is that there are no friends at the poker table. I will play my game straight up against anyone and though it hurts to get beat by a friend who makes a move on me, it is a part of the game and I accept it. I never take things personally on the poker table.

My friend however, is the opposite. He is a horrible poker player, but believes that since we are friends we should "check-it down" heads up.

Well, I have explained to him time and time again that I will not check it down heads up. There is no way in hell I am going to give him a free flush draw against my overpair when I am a massive favorite to win the pot. If he wants to win, he must pay. If he pays, and outdraws me then all the better for him.

I have also tried to help him with his game as well, but he has a bit of pride and ego. He really believes he is a good poker player, but for the love of god I know he is not because I have watched over him for months now and believe me he drops more bills in the game than he does cashing out. He makes excuses, refuses to adjust, and other rambunctious knockings that only a bad poker player would make.

I really do not know what to do now. He's flushing money away, some of it to me of course. I would like to help him, but it will hurt our friendship. He's a great friend, but horrible poker player.

I guess his refusal to accept a good friend's critism is a sign that I should not help him. Poker after all is not a gentlemen's game. Is it worth it to hurt our friendship over poker anyways if he is too nieve to see is a bad player?

[gibs]

I usually don't help them mainly because nobody likes a table coach. That is unless they ask me for help. I have lent my books to a couple of friends and have given them pointers that I have picked up along the way, but this is all after we're done playing. The only time I'll help someone during the game (in between hands of course) is when they are a complete newbie and I have persuaded them to play so we can have close to a full table. I'll tell them things like "never draw to the ass end of a straight" and "always scan the board to see what hands might be out there that can beat you." Then hopefully if they don't do too bad they'll come back and play again.

[Bob T.]

If they ask, I help them, if they don't, it isn't any of my business, and I don't. Some of my friends like talking about hands, and I've learned from them, too.

I also don't mind playing hard against friends, the group I play in is fairly competitive, I would guess that at least half of them are winning players at Canterbury, and half the fun is outplaying them on a hand, and then teasing them about it at work the next day. Or for them, outplaying me, and teasing me the next day.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Bob T.]

Larry,

I think that one thing that you have to recognize is that people don't all play for the same reasons. Since it seems that he doesn't want to face the fact that his results don't add up to those of a winning player, and he also doesn't seem that interesting in changing an ineffective game, he probably is playing for reasons other than to perfect his game and win some money.

A lot of people play for the fun of game, and/or comeraderie, and look at the expenses they have as entertainment expense. As long as you are friendly, and maybe funny, they really don't care if they lose money, in fact, it is what usually happens, so they aren't surprised or dismayed by it.

What might bother your friend more than losing money, or being a bad player, is your confronting him with the evidence that he is a bad player.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[3rdEye]

In a home S&G one time, on a flop of A 7 4 rainbow, my buddy called an all in bet with a 45 against an AK. The 5 came on the river, and my buddy (who gets a bit egotistical when he has a buzz) was going on and on about how he "schooled" the AK guy. I tried and tried to tell him that his play was retarded, but he would not listen (for him, the results were all that mattered).