letting them bet for me

[dfscott]

I'm continuing my late street weakness, but I think I might be able to make a case for it here. Please comment...

Second orbit, but MP1 and UTG had been involved in about 1/2 of the pots and also taken a lot of them down by being very agressive (some to showdown, some not). With a drawing hand, I decided to let them bet this one for me to keep the cost down.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls,

I don't know if I put much stock in UTG's raise or not, so I play it cautious and just call.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Other than flopping a made flush or more queens, I can't imagine a better flop for me. However, I'm drawing to the nuts and I want everyone around. I decided that just calling would get more money in the pot.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

I've hit my hand and still have the nuts. I expect that raising here will definitely fold any non-flush hand and not get me any extra bets anyway. Too risky?

River: (14.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 calls $0.25 (All-In), Hero calls.

Ouch. Now I know why I don't like to slow-play. Didn't want to see that, but it's hard to tell if anyone really likes it. UTG doesn't seem scared by it. MP1 might love it but I can't tell since he's out of money. I get afraid of QT and just call -- should I go ahead and raise here and call UTG if he re-raises?

Final Pot: 16.70 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 15.70 BB, between Hero, UTG and MP1.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, between Hero and UTG.</font>

[Piiop]

Raise the river. RAISE IT!

[ScottTheFish]

3-bet the turn. I doubt anyone is folding for 3 that would call 2. With any luck someone will cap it.

You know you have to raise this river. You have the nut flush! Don't back off a monster hand just because the board pairs on the river. Sometimes someone will have a boat. Most of the time they won't.

You HAVE to pump up the pot your strong hands so the pots you win make up for the times they suck out on you.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Chance of UTG having QT or QQ is pretty slim (one chance each if we're assuming QT is suited /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs. I'd say he has a high PP or AQ, KQ, and he can't play it right w/ that stop-n-go action.

[Piiop]

I think not 3-betting the turn is fine. The BB is probably folding anyway so he doesn't matter. MP1 is calling, but he has less than 1 BB left so you'll get than no matter what. However, if you 3-bet the turn UTG will probably just check-call the river. If you cold-call the turn, UTG will probably bet out again so you can raise and get another bet out of him.

If anyone in this hand has QT or 77 it's MP1 and he's all-in so raise it up and if he did suckout than you'll at least get another bet from UTG. UTG would've been way more aggressive with TT or QQ. Probably has AA/KK/KQ/AQ.

[Ric]

3 bet the turn or raise the river. Or both. Not doing so loses more bets than it saves.

[dfscott]

Thanks, all. I think I've played too weakly late, afraid to dump money into a pot that I might not have won. As I move up in limits, it's more important than ever to maximize the pot when I do have a good chance of having the best hand.

FWIW, UTG had QdJh and MP1 had a Jc9c -- MHIG.

[chief444]

No way I ever hold that hand and call all the way. That said, I think the fact that MP1 was close to all-in should have been more reason to play aggressively early to try to get a side pot going.

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]
If you cold-call the turn, UTG will probably bet out again so you can raise and get another bet out of him.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you're saying, but I would still rather pop the turn here. If the 4th club comes or someone misses his draw it could kill my action. I like to let them call raises when there is still a card to come.

I doubt it makes much difference either way in the long run tho.

[bakku]

However, if you 3-bet the turn UTG will probably just check-call the river.

This makes you the same amount of money as cold calling the raise and popping the river, but gets more money in the pot while you still have the nuts.

[vipchump]

I don't know about everyone else on this forum, but I'm playing this much more aggressively.

PF: You say you don't know if you respect UTG's raise... I would threebet here.

Flop: You have TPTK and the nut flush draw. I would in most cases threebet here. The only person I'd be afraid of losing is the BB. I can see the case for cold calling and then raising the turn though, but I'd still be raising in most cases.

Turn: Three bet. You have the nuts right now.. build that pot up.

River: Raise. As others often say, fear not the flush...in this case fear not the full house. Maybe there's a few instances when you lose, but often you'll earn money here. You would more often know where you are here if you had raised earlier as well.

Think this hand was played too weak.

[B Dids]

Re-Raise pre flop.

I'd be tempted to 3-bet the flop. I don't think you'll fold UTG, so all you lose is the BB.

Bet the turn, you're just being greedy now.

You raise river now!!!

[Jaran]

I think your play here is fine on the flop and the turn against two loose/crazies, but against a thinking player who knows you are a thinking player, your calling two cold on the flop and the turn is going to set off warning bells. Also, I would raise this river.

-Jaran

[HajiShirazu]

Just raise the flop and bet/raise all the way. If you get more money in early, people tend to hang around late.