Playing TT, JJ, and maybe QQ with many players remaining

[Bigwig]

I'll always raise, reraise, or call decent raises with these hands preflop. But the question is what to do after the flop. I'm sure you've all had this scenario (I had it two nights ago):

SNG at stars. 7 players remaining. I have about 1400. Blinds are 50/100. My hand is JJ on the button.

One limper, and I raise to 400. SB folds, BB calls, and limper folds. Flop comes 4, 7, T rainbow. BB checks, I raise all-in, and he calls.

He turns over QQ, no jack on the turn or river, and I'm gone.

Now, with QQ you are really only worrying about KK and AA (or possbily trips), but all of those are low probability, so I can't say that QQ qualfies.

But with JJ or TT and low cards on the flop, you're particularly vulnerable. What is everyone's philosophy on playing these pairs after a low flop such as I had?

[deacsoft]

You have got to play them like the best hand simply because they most likely still are. I don't like to mess around with these types of hands. If I raise preflop and get called and the flop comes rags I will generraly push-in or make a pot-sized+ bet. Basically not giving them the odds to draw to overcards or 5 outers (2 pair; trips). The reason for this? As you said, these hands are still open to attack (overcards could kill you). If they turn over a bigger pocket pair after you push in; so be it.

BTW, it is usually incorrect to call raises preflop with high pocket pairs (some may not qualify T-T or J-J as a high pocket pair though).

[Bigwig]

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BTW, it is usually incorrect to call raises preflop with high pocket pairs (some may not qualify T-T or J-J as a high pocket pair though).

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Well, I agree with that, referring to QQ, KK, and AA. I was speaking mainly of TT and JJ.

I see your point with all-in and drawing. And I agree. I guess you sort of have to look at it as bad luck, you ran up against the bigger hand, correct?

How about this added element. You raise with JJ, and get reraised, call, and the preflop is the same. Now, you might suspect that you are beat by a higher pocket pair (due to the preflop reraise). How would this change the strategy?

[deacsoft]

This is where knowing your opponent to some degree can be very useful. If your opponent is tight; you may want to consider folding this hand more often to a reraise. Your opponent would be more likely to have a larger pocket pair or two overcards. Making you, at best, a very slight favorite. (if you don't mind being a slight favorite than disregard that) Where as with a loose player you may want to consider reraising his reraise. It is very possible that he may be raising with a much worse hand and possibly only one overcard. Either way it's rarely an easy decision and there can be many other factors to account for. Such as: your stack size/your opponents stack size (if you lose where will you be/how much will your opponent have postflop), the size of the blinds (in elation to your stack), how close to the money you are, what are the differences between the money places (is third, where you could finsh, considerably more money than if you bust now and finish fourth), the players left to act in the hand behind you (their playing styles, amount of chips, and number of them), and I'm sure I'm missing others. Hopefully others will fill in anything I've missed here.

I hate to send you to a book, but I often end up there myself and suggest it to many others. Check out Tournament Poker for Advanced Players (TPFAP) by Sklansky. The book goes in to much greater detail as in how to account for the prementioned. Mr. Sklansky, of course, explains it a world better than I can. TPFAP includes much more that will help you to becaom a solid tournament player. Hope this helps.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate to send you to a book, but I often end up there myself and suggest it to many others. Check out Tournament Poker for Advanced Players (TPFAP) by Sklansky. The book goes in to much greater detail as in how to account for the prementioned. Mr. Sklansky, of course, explains it a world better than I can. TPFAP includes much more that will help you to becaom a solid tournament player. Hope this helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's sitting within arm's reach of me. Perhaps I should reread it a little.

[hhboy77]

getting reraised (when not a steal position raise) with jj and tt is about the worse feeling in holdem. calling it is entirely read dependent, but against a good, solid player you are often folding it preflop, unless the stacks are deep enough to allow you to call and try to flop a set. it also means that you're out of position which doesn't help either.