Lay down QQ here?

[holeplug]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3895)
Button (t2690)
SB (t4345)
Hero (t2570)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t1200</font>, Button calls t1200, SB folds, Hero folds.

I just started playing SNGs recently on stars and have found them alot more fun than the ring game grind. Normally I would push here without much thinking but the buttons call here kinda threw me off. Why would you call away almost half your stack unless you have something that didn't matter too much what the flop brought (AA or KK). So I figured thats what he had and was trying to get an extra bet out of UTG on the flop so he could win a bigger pot, so I mucked my QQ. Is this way too much monster under the bed thinking or did I do the right thing here?

[edge]

Is this a $5 or $10 SNG? If so, he makes the call because he's a bad player. I'd push here, but then, I get a lot of fourths.

[av8or2]

I'm guessing here that three players will make the money.

I put UTG on A-mid, maybe a pair but it's below QQ
Button has AA, KK, or AK.

Your better than a 2:1 favorite over UTG

AA or KK and your in trouble, but you have a slight edge over AK.

If I was playing this game in my typical tight fashion, everyone at the table would figure UTG was trying to steal the pot from me. Thus the Button could call with a lot more hands, like JJ, TT, 99. I think I would call and push on any reasonable flop.

I like QQ, but that's because I busted out 2 players today. Both of them were holding AKs. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Girazze]

I'd fold it. Odds are they have A or K or both. Losing means out of the tourney since you are short stack. Plenty of time to attack later without two already in. Let them battle it out and hopefully there will only be three at the end of that hand.

[stupidsucker]

folding here is not a bad idea at all IMO. It sure hurts to lay down QQ, but the smooth call from the button suggests he wants the BB to call, or he wants the original better to make a steal attempt on the flop.

I would put the UTG on a steal(with a decent hand) and the button on no less then AK.

A lot of this depends on how they have played until this point. Folding is a good idea, and I think you need a good read to push.
There is a very good chance that by folding you make the money. If an A flops

[hhboy77]

this is the kind of situation that makes you wish you had stolen one more blind at 50/100. if that were the case, you'd be more inclined to push all in.

you might get it heads up with the utg raiser becuase the other guy doesn't want to bust fourth. i think laying down is reasonable either way.

[Eder]

I'd hate to play QQ here against more than 1 player...if this is 5$ SnG it more likely the caller has KJs or 66 etc...people tend to push with AA KK AK....

If this average table I would push,...if the caller seems to be strong player I fold the ladies...I definately don't call

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this a $5 or $10 SNG? If so, he makes the call because he's a bad player. I'd push here, but then, I get a lot of fourths.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a 6+.50 turbo SNG. I honestly see no skill difference between the $5 and $10 though

[holeplug]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">UTG (t3895)</font>
<font color="C00000">Button (t2690)</font>
SB (t4345)
Hero (t2570)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t1200</font>, Button calls t1200, SB folds, Hero folds.

Flop: (t2475) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t2475) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets t400</font>, Button calls t400.

River: (t3275) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets t2270 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t1065 (All-In).

Final Pot: t6610
<font color="green">Main Pot: t5405 (t5405), between UTG and Button.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG (t5405).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t1205 (t1205), returned to UTG.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows Ad 4s (full house, aces full of fours).
Button shows Kd Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins t6610. </font>

I figured UTG on Ax or even Kx. I overestimated the button obviously and have no idea what he was thinking the entire hand.

[HajiShirazu]

What about calling and pushing if no A/K flops?

[Girazze]

You did well....gratz on the fold.

[holeplug]

[ QUOTE ]
What about calling and pushing if no A/K flops?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this would easily be the worst of the 3 options I had. I figured button was on AA or KK since he smooth called the UTG raise which was almost half his stack size. If I push on the flop I would be doing exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he called the UTG raise instead of pushing himself, which was to get me to come along as well.

[Tosh]

I think folding is the worst of the 3 options, unless you are aiming to merely make the money.

[Jason Strasser]

For me, it comes down to a lack of trust. The UTG raise doesn't smell bad, and the cold call looks dumb. There is not one hand I think a good player will cold call there in this spot on the bubble. I think even with AA, cold calling is a bad move. So therefore, I do NOT give credit to an amazing hand here, but rather an unintelligent player thinking:
"Wow, I have two pointy cards. Once is an ace. WOW! The other is a four, it still looks nice although because it is pointy. I have pointy-pointy! And I can see the flop without going broke!"

I push. I get 4th a lot, but I think you push here and take the shot. I sincerely doubt you will get shown AA or KK enough here to make this play not optimal.

On the other hand, you can't call and fold to over cards. That's a bad plan.

[Tosh]

I hate calling but hate folding even more.

[Jason Strasser]

Yeah, so I guess we should rule them both out and just push. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tosh]

Sounds good to me.

[stupidsucker]

hmm. Maybe I am too tight, or maybe maybe I just give people more credit then they deserve. I generaly try to trust a read I have. Even an online read. I know for a fact I would find myself either folding or pushing here, there is deffenatly zero chance of just calling.

I understand the concept of going for the win opposed to going for ITM, but I think sometimes staying out of a potential 3way pot isnt such a horrible idea. I have more 1sts then I do 3rds and I would consider folding this hand. I try to look at the situation when deciding if I want to GO FOR THE WIN or just ITM and then go for the win. For me poker isnt always a cut and dry thing.