Wimpy, wimpy Dids? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

B Dids

06-25-2004, 10:06 PM

Just checking for a taste of the weak/tightness. Hands are grouped together 'cause I think it's a common theme.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, 3 folds, MP2 3-bets, Dids caps, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB bets, UTG raises, MP2 calls, Dids folds

OK here. I capped because MP2 was an utter maniac preflop so I didn't really respect his hand. Still not sure if that was a good move.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Dids 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Dids raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Dids calls, UTG calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Dids calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 7d 8h (two pair, eights and sevens).
UTG+1 shows 7c 8s (two pair, eights and sevens).
MP1 shows 8c Kc (one pair, eights).
Dids shows Jc Jd (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins 9.37 BB. UTG+1 wins 9.37 BB. 

Results aside, I feel like I backed down too quick here. I put one of the callers on an overpair better than mine, great read, huh?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Dids raises, 7 folds, SB calls, 1 fold,

Flop: (5 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Dids bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Dids bets, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Dids checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows Qs Qh (two pair, kings and queens).
Dids shows Ts Tc (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: SB wins 5.50 BB. 

Again, I play scared. Save money, but I still think it's the wrong play.

Just to make sure nobody thinks I've totally lost my manaical touch.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Dids is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Dids raises, MP2 calls, 5 folds,

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Dids bets, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 3.25 BB

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Dids wins 3.25 BB. 

Am I on crack?

SofaCoach

06-25-2004, 10:55 PM

Even againsta maniac I think i fold hand 1 PF. It's going to be a 3-way hand at least and you'll have to make a set to win it. Wiat 'til you can isolate him 1 on 1.

Hand 2, yes you slowed down too soon.

Hand 3, it may not be the right play But I'd check it through on the river too wondering what they're calling with and suspecting an 8.

Hand 4, nice job.

Chris Daddy Cool

06-25-2004, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Even againsta maniac I think i fold hand 1 PF. It's going to be a 3-way hand at least and you'll have to make a set to win it. Wiat 'til you can isolate him 1 on 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true at all. 99 will hold up its fair share of the time without hitting a set. In tougher games (though probably never in the PP .5/1.00) you can often isolate cap because the original raiser if tight enough will sometimes fold when its two bets cold back to him.

B Dids

06-25-2004, 11:27 PM

Which the original raiser was. 14 VISP.

Chris Daddy Cool

06-25-2004, 11:33 PM

Well if thats the case then you can feel pretty safe about your flop fold given that BB came to life AND your aforementioned TAG raised him after calling two cold preflop.

B Dids

06-25-2004, 11:37 PM

Amusingly the maniac had 99, and ended up raking the pot.

sublime

06-26-2004, 01:10 AM

Which the original raiser was. 14 VISP.

A tight player raises UTG and you cap from MP with 99?

Fold. Like easily.

Chris Daddy Cool

06-26-2004, 01:17 AM

So you're telling me 99 doesn't beat AK, AQ, KQ hands that a tight player will raise with UTG?

sublime

06-26-2004, 01:31 AM

So you're telling me 99 doesn't beat AK, AQ, KQ hands that a tight player will raise with UTG?

Yeah it does, barely. Problem is villian could have AA-TT also. This doesn't even take into account the maniac's 3-bet.

This fold is a very easy decision.

Chris Daddy Cool

06-26-2004, 01:46 AM

Assuming he'll have a high pocket pair anytime he raises is a serious error.

B Dids

06-26-2004, 01:57 AM

FWIW- not taking into account the maniacs 3-bet was pretty common, all it meant was that he had two cards. He seemed to love the attempted isloation raise, but he rarely had anything.

sublime

06-26-2004, 02:15 AM

Assuming he'll have a high pocket pair anytime he raises is a serious error.

I didnt say he had a high PP, i said he COULD have a high PP. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Purely math based he more likely has some high suited/unsuited connector. Add poker logic to that equation and his hand gets a little stronger, add the maniacs 3-bet and I fold this in my sleep.

Just for fun I ran a simutaion. This will assume that maniac has a somewhat wacky hand and that no one else yet to act calls.

These are the possible holdings I gave UTG:

AA-TT, AKs-AJs, KQs-KJs, QJs, AKo-AQo

These are the hands I gave maniac:

AA-22, AKs-A9s, KQs-K9s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-J9s, T9s, AKo-A7o, KQo-K9o, QJo-QTo, JTo

UTG wins 42% of the time
Maniac wins 24% of the time
Hero wins 33% of the time

Easy fold /images/graemlins/grin.gif

B Dids

06-26-2004, 02:17 AM

You give the maniac far too much credit /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chris Daddy Cool

06-26-2004, 02:41 AM

Hero wins 33% of the time

Supposing that its going to be 3 way action, you should still be in this hand anyways according to these stats because you'll be putting in 1/3 of the bets with dead money (the blinds) already in this pot. Yes, its super thin value, but you're not losing anything by being in this hand IMO. The only person losing Sklansky bucks in this case is the maniac.

sublime

06-26-2004, 02:53 AM

You give the maniac far too much credit

Cool, I just reran the simulation and these are the numbers with maniac holding RANDOM cards

UTG: 47%
Maniac: 18%
Hero: 35%

Play well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

sublime

06-26-2004, 03:03 AM

Supposing that its going to be 3 way action, you should still be in this hand anyways according to these stats because you'll be putting in 1/3 of the bets with dead money (the blinds) already in this pot. Yes, its super thin value, but you're not losing anything by being in this hand IMO. The only person losing Sklansky bucks in this case is the maniac.

Chris, IMO the cap is horrible. I guess we just differ here.

Perfect example, look at the flop action.

Goodnight /images/graemlins/grin.gif