AJ played like AK

[SinCityGuy]

Bad 10/20 game at the Mirage. There is only one loose player at the table; otherwise, there’s a lot of strategic raising, isolating and blind stealing. However, there is a rainbow on the horizon, as I’m next up for a table change to join four terrible players that I played with last night.

I open raise in EMP with A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif

Folded to the big blind, a tough T/A player, who calls.

Flop: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif

He checks, I check.

River: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif

He bets, I call.

Fire away.

[DeeJ]

Someone was saying the 10/20 Mirage game was really soft. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, any 6 or 8 and you're totally dead meat. He could have been trying a c-r on the turn since you showed strength previously. It could also be a river steal if he thinks you have AK, true.

There's sod all in the pot so I'm calling too.

[NMcNasty]

I think you should have bet the turn and if you get called and then checked to, you should bet the river as well. Even if you get raised somewhere along the way I would probably call down. That flop is way too good for you to be played weakly.

[Daggs911]

I think he tried to take the pot from you on the river, assuming you had overcards. I guess you take this one down.

_M_

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad 10/20 game at the Mirage. There is only one loose player at the table; otherwise, there’s a lot of strategic raising, isolating and blind stealing. However, there is a rainbow on the horizon, as I’m next up for a table change to join four terrible players that I played with last night.

I open raise in EMP with A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif

Folded to the big blind, a tough T/A player, who calls.

Flop: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif

He checks, I check.

River: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif

He bets, I call.

Fire away.

[/ QUOTE ]

fine. as long as u will call the river bet regardless of what comes down.

[astroglide]

my cutoff for this sort of play would be AQ on a Q868 turn

[elysium]

hi sin
it looks bad on the surface, i know, but i think you played it fine. i don't like this one. folding on the river is likely correct. i fold on the river here.

when you have a T/A in there, even if the pundits say it's impossible, it is very profittable to beat them. it is very hard to beat them. you need to get them to attack you when you have a stronger hand, and the most difficult part here is that these guys know how strong you are and whether or not they are stronger, with great precision.

if you are the force at the table to be reckoned with, the T/A will be just ever so slightly weaker after he has had a long drought, and you have had a heated battle against a marginal with your marginal, and showndown. the T/A likes to watch this kind of action. they don't like watching bluffs or powerhouse type hands because hand reading is not involved. the T/A like handreading situations and if you are hand reading at a higher level than the T/A thinks possible, and consistantly inching out your opponents on the showdown, the T/A will often want to show off a little.

here comes QJs. you attempt to get him heads up when he enters to demonstrate his handreading skills, on the heels of a significant handreading event. you will be very successful getting the T/A heads up, taking advantage of their only real weak area; the T/A is the easiest of all opponents to get heads up. the time to get the T/A heads up, is when they want to show you what a real bona fide marginal hand is, instead of some of these mediocre marginals you've been winning with. he will want to attack what he perceives as a lucky marginal streak. and the T/A will come out. they usually will fold on the turn.

the T/A's like to watch clarkmeister hands and take him on. they tighten against all other type games. when they see skill, they get sporting. in this hand, since there isn't a lot of marginal activity, and the skills the T/A is observing would tend to tighten him, you're beat. you played it better than i would have because you call the river, i would have erred and folded. clearly, the line on this one is to call. i just don't like this hand and situation you describe whatsoever. this guy has me beat, and i want to tweak his interest with a handread fold.

[sucka]

elysium, you are something else man...

[DcifrThs]

uh, the difference is that with AK you cannot have overcards fall...no danger...

here a Q or K may be bad...

-Barron

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
uh, the difference is that with AK you cannot have overcards fall...no danger...

here a Q or K may be bad...

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

he meant to be perceived as "having AK" by the TAP. btw, AK cannot have OC fall but AK doesn't have a pair.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
uh, the difference is that with AK you cannot have overcards fall...no danger...

here a Q or K may be bad...

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

he meant to be perceived as "having AK" by the TAP. btw, AK cannot have OC fall but AK doesn't have a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

gotcha, i meant that when it pairs and is played like that...guess me no speeky eenglish.

-Barron

[SinCityGuy]

Giving a free card to a K or Q is questionable here, I agree. Normally, I bet this turn almost all of the time.

This opponent mixes up his game very well, and he checkraises the turn heads up with just the correct frequency to make life difficult. Sometimes, he's bluffing/semibluffing, but often, he's not bluffing. He's also not the type to typically "take one off" on the flop in a small heads-up pot.

[Philuva]

Wouldn't me more likely have a J than an 8 or 6 in his hand?

[cpk]

I like this maneuver against tricky opponents. I call it the Reverse Induced Bluff, because you can't check to them hoping they'll bluff at you, but you can induce one hoping to get them to fire away at you on the river.

If the opponent was weak or passive, though, I would've bet the turn and folded to a check-raise. When a weak player check-raises, you know they can beat top pair. They will dutifully call you with hands that are worse.

[Senor Choppy]

Your hand is too good to be overly worried about a check-raise here heads-up. With a worse kicker I would hate it a lot more, but here just fire and pay him off if you get raised.

You said he likes to mix up his game, semi-bluffing on occasion, let him semi-bluff here. Missing a bet here just because another 8 fell is bad poker. Think about all the hands you're beating and need to charge to see the river rather than the few you're losing to.

[SinCityGuy]

After I called his river bet, he said "I guess we're chopping", as he turned over his AT. He looked a bit stunned when I turned over my AJ.

[nepenthe]

I don't care what limit this is or what kind of TA player my opponent is. The only reason I'd check the turn through is to raise the river barring a K or Q.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Sin City:

Your play becomes right if your turn check is likely to induce a bluff, and against some very aggressive players this will usually be the case. (Notice that it doesn't really matter how tight or loose they are before the flop.)

However, against someone who is unlikely to bluff but who might call down with a small pair or an ace, then you're better off betting the turn.

Best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SinCity:

Since your opponent turned over AT and I'll assume it was offsuit since there is no little "s," I question how tight this player really is.

Best wishes,
Mason

[cpk]

I'm confused. On this specific hand, what purpose does a raise serve?

[AJo Go All In]

any pair or ace will call you down

[cpk]

What if you get re-raised?

[surfdoc]

Hi Mason,

Is A10o a routine fold here getting 3.5:1? What if the raise came from 2 off the button?
It looks to me that SinCitys opponent here makes a much worse call on the flop when he totally misses.

[Zele]

When you call a decent playing EMP in the bb with ATo, what flop is going to make you happy?

Folding should be automatic.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding should be automatic.

[/ QUOTE ]

This preflop call is typical of a multitude of Mirage regulars who claim to be, and at first glance appear to be tight. In reality, they are semi-tight and make this and other similarly bad calls preflop which don't hurt them against bad players, but get them dusted against someone who knows how to play.

[Diplomat]

I am fairly sure you can fold to a re-raise. (Not that I necessarily advocate raising the river in the first place)

-Diplomat

[cpk]

It makes sense if it gets a bigger hand to fold. Otherwise it seems really dumb to me. But I'm not very good, so what do I know?