Hand for Review: 75s in SB - Betting turn on the come

[Warik]

I don't like how I played this. In fact, I think I hate it.

Berate me please... but be gentle.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks,

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows 7h 5h (flush, ten high).
UTG shows Ac Ts (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.50 BB. </font>

[nykenny]

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.


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bad. with aggro next to you, u'd better off check call or check /raise if u think u are the favorite to win by the river, or getting a good price on ur raise.

River: (8.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.


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bad. on the rare cases UTG will beat you with a AhXh. but i'd be happy to lose 2 more BBs if that's the case. i would 3bet here close to 100% of the time.

anyway, good to see you surviving (beating) the 10-20 games... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kenny

[rory]

Preflop OK, flop OK.

The turn bet is sort of weak because I don't see how anyone could fold their ace here. If you had a monster, wouldn't you have check raised? Also you folded out the CO by letting UTG raise and you sort of wanted him to hang around with his gutshot or 3rd pair or whatever he has.

The river is an easy 3 bet-- you are going to get paid off by a good ace, two pair and retarded cards for a straight enough times to make up for the few times you get 4 bet and your flush is outkicked.

Anyway...

I guess the turn and river play are internally consistent, but are correct for a different but similar-looking situation. Pretend the flop bettor was the button, you called and everyone folded on the flop. Betting out on the turn isn't terrible when you pick up more outs, because maybe the button was betting a draw or bluffing because it was checked to him on the flop. Now he might fold, because there is a chance he doesn't have anything, not even a draw, and fears you have an ace. I would bet the end whether or not I improved if he just called here.

The river play is internally consistent if he just calls your bet on the turn. If he just calls and raises you on the river when that heart comes, then maybe 3 betting isn't such a good idea, because it certainly looks like a draw that got there.

But in your hand, UTG bet into a field of players with the ace high flop-- most likely, he has an ace. Your line of play on the turn is much better if the flop bettor could possibly be bluffing or semi-bluffing. Then on the river he pops you after popping you on the turn which is not consistent with a flush draw.. So three bet.

-rory

[Warik]

Thanks for the responses guys (actually was worried I wouldn't get any /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

I agree that a check-raise on the turn would have worked much better. I might have been able to keep the CO in and it was very likely that UTG planned to fire again.

I also agree that a 3-bet on the river is in order. Assuming he is not completely insane, the likelihood of him having two hearts is not very good because he is UTG and any playable AX/images/graemlins/heart.gif or KX/images/graemlins/heart.gif hand is usually raised from that position.

kenny,

Glad to be alive here too. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm "surviving" for a little over 1 BB/100 over a few thousand hands right now while I get used to the tightness of these games. It won't be long till you have to change your screen name to keep me from stalking you and taking your stack. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nightwish]

The problem with betting the turn is that it looks like a totally innocent card (and it is!) This makes UTG want to raise with any A, which is presumably what he bet on the flop. On the river, I would reraise. Two flushes are pretty rare.

[DcifrThs]

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Glad to be alive here too. I'm "surviving" for a little over 1 BB/100 over a few thousand hands right now while I get used to the tightness of these games. It won't be long till you have to change your screen name to keep me from stalking you and taking your stack.


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recently i changed gaming conditions from party 15 to party 10/20...the games are more passive and sometimes tighter sometimes its 7 people limp and your in the blinds. some people people notice at times you dont play many hands and act as if you have a pair ever time you enter for a raise. i dont overuse this theor of theirs but it comes in handy a LOT...also, a lot of these guys fancy themselves poker players and lay down the goods on the turn to a raise...so semibluff the right people. the game is good, so dont start messing it up for me with you and your 2+2 buddies lol...

take care,
-Barron

PS- my name on party is no longer DcifrThs...so beware lol.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Warik,

Your turn bet is pretty fishy. Betting would be fine with certain turn cards, but on that flop there aren't going to be any that make a turn bet stop-n-go good. Checking and calling is best. UTG limps in these games are going to be Axs, low/medium pocket pairs, or suited broadway more often than not. If he bet the turn, it's usually going to be Axs here and he's not going to fold it very often at all. Check and call and suck out.

GoT

[nykenny]

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while I get used to the tightness of these games...

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hehehe, don't be silly /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
PS- my name on party is no longer DcifrThs...so beware lol.


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finally! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif