Struggling with small pockets preflop

[Elbie]

Always struggling with small pockets preflop. Your comments please on: 1. The call UTG. 2. The call of the BB raise 3. The fold to the cap


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

[7Dave]

1) easy fold.

2) easy call.

3) call.

/d

[Webster]

Well - you should never be playing 55 UTG.

I don't even play JJ UTG

QQ is where I start playing pockets UTG.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
1) easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats riduculous.

[7Dave]

JJ is very playable utg.

/d

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Folding here is horrible. You're getting sufficient odds to call. You should be getting about 5-1 in set equity with implied odds to make calling correct. Here once its capped back to you, you're gettig something like 6.5-1, not to mention people still left to call behind you, so calling should be automatic.

[7Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats riduculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's rid_i_culous.

/d

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Type-O. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

still, doesn't change my point though

[7Dave]

What point? That limping utg with 55 is a great play?

/d

[Chris Daddy Cool]

That folding 55 UTG at typical Party .5/1.00 games is terrible.

Well, actually, calling it an easy fold is terrible. It is anything but "easy", if even a fold at all.

[7Dave]

Point taken. I'd still fold everytime unless I was convinced the table was loose-passive enough for something else.

/d

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Wrong.

[Elbie]

Thanks for all the comments

I understand now that my fold to the cap was terrible. Actually I kicked myself even before seeing what the flop had to offer. I don´t think though that limping with small pockets, even UTG, in a party 0.5/1 is terrible, but as I said in my original post I have problems how to handle small pockets preflop and I need advice from more experienced players.

With JJ UTG I´ll rise about 100% of the time trying to force out overcards (like Axo, a hand that otherwise is frequently called with at this level)

Here is the "sad" outcome of the hand. ( Yes I know, don´t stare yourself blind at the outcome of one particular hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 16.75 BB, between Button, BB and UTG+2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by BB (16.75 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows As Ac (two pair, aces and eights).
UTG+2 shows Jc Jd (two pair, jacks and eights).
Button shows Kc Qd (two pair, eights and fives).
Outcome: BB wins 16.75 BB. </font>

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
Well - you should never be playing 55 UTG.

I don't even play JJ UTG

QQ is where I start playing pockets UTG.


[/ QUOTE ]
You are a rock. Way too tight. JJ should be raised all day long from UTG, NOT folded.

Limping with 55 UTG is fine IMO at most typical loose, passive games. Folding to the cap however was bad.

[sublime]

I don't even play JJ UTG.

Your 1000th post should start with:

"I was drunk last night when I posted this"

Horrible advice.

[cartoonsoldier]

I agree the hand is callable pre-flop, only because when you hit the trips against the others high PP, you get paid of lots...as would have happened here.

At party you can play most PP UTG.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
At party you can play most PP UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

At party .5/1 you can play every PP UTG. As bisonbison once said, if you can't limp in with 22 UTG you need to find another table.

[djcolts]

What's the lowest pair you'd raise with UTG at a typical .5/1 PP game? TT? 99?

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the lowest pair you'd raise with UTG at a typical .5/1 PP game? TT? 99?

[/ QUOTE ]
I will normally open raise with TT in pretty much any game. I wouldn't normally raise 99 or less at a .5/1 party game from UTG. In a tighter game, I would often raise 99 UTG and sometimes 88.

[HajiShirazu]

[ QUOTE ]
Well - you should never be playing 55 UTG.

I don't even play JJ UTG

QQ is where I start playing pockets UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you're not serious here.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
As bisonbison once said, if you can't limp in with 22 UTG you need to find another table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I said that... or was it A2s ???
either way, yea, I agree.
whethor or not bison said that before me is a different matter.

[HajiShirazu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At party you can play most PP UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

At party .5/1 you can play every PP UTG. As bisonbison once said, if you can't limp in with 22 UTG you need to find another table.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this was Dynasty originally but I'm sure bisonbison appreciates it also. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Ah.... Dynasty.

I knew I wasn't that creative.

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At party you can play most PP UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

At party .5/1 you can play every PP UTG. As bisonbison once said, if you can't limp in with 22 UTG you need to find another table.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this was Dynasty originally but I'm sure bisonbison appreciates it also. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Thanks for the correction. I guess I'm not sure who said it first??? The first time I saw it was in a bisonbison post.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't even play JJ UTG.

Your 1000th post should start with:

"I was drunk last night when I posted this"

Horrible advice.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, he is from Madison. It's even money that a Madison resident is drunk on any given night - high if he lives near State Street.

[bakku]

I think he's kidding.

[bakku]

You are leaving a lot of money on the table if this is an easy fold at .50/1

[bisonbison]

What the hell is going on in this thread?

1. 55 UTG is an easy call.
2. 55 UTG when the BB raises is an easy call.
3. 55 UTG when it comes back capped is not fun, but it's also a call.

4. I have widely credited Dynasty for saying "if you can't... find another table". Dynasty tends not to post in ML, so a lot of people here heard it from me first when we had a couple of ugly threads about it.

5. Describing 55 as an easy fold UTG is ugly. Ugly. Easy UTG folds include A6o, J7o, T5s, and 32s. 55 is significantly better and easier to play than any of these hands.

[Ed Miller]

You were going fine until you folded.

[charlie_t_jr]

[ QUOTE ]
4. I have widely credited Dynasty for saying "if you can't... find another table". Dynasty tends not to post in ML, so a lot of people here heard it from me first when we had a couple of ugly threads about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I participated in one of those "ugly" threads...I've since changed my thinking of small pp in EP...thanks.

[7Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
5. Describing 55 as an easy fold UTG is ugly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

/d

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5. Describing 55 as an easy fold UTG is ugly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

/d

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a Party .5/1 game. Unless it's unusually tight/agressive, I limp here with ANY pocket pair, and ANY Ax suited. In this game, this is an easy call.

[bisonbison]

You need roughly 4 other players to make a low pocket pair worth playing. At a typical low limit table, an UTG limp virtually guarantees a 5-handed flop at minimum, and often much more. If it's an easy fold, you're probably at a bad micro table. If you're at a good table, then that fold cannot be easy. At best, it can be marginal.

You're simply not going to lose much money on pocket pairs. 4 things tend to happen with low pocket pairs:

1. You flop a set and likely win.
2. You don't flop a set and fold.
3. You flop a straight draw, look at the odds and make a decision.
4. There's a ton of preflop action and even though you miss the flop, you look at the odds and decide whether call to draw to a gutshot and/or a turned set.

[7Dave]

You need 4 other players and not a raise right? Otherwise you will have some catching up to do no? Such as 5 BB maybe and with a 3-bet and a cap it doesn't get better yes?

But I know - loose-passive, easy call bla bla... Just seems that every time someone limps early with crappy pairs they get raised... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

/d

[RED_RAIN]

At nearly all .5/1 games you can call pocket 2s or A2s UTG.

[RustedCorpse]

Any game that is good enough to sit at is good enough to play even 2's UTG. Even with something like 2's, if you hit your set it'll be forever before anyone can put you on a hand. Just don't chase them after the flop. (Although I've heard arguments to staying in if they would be at least second highest pair.)

I couldn't imagine not raising JJ UTG, that seems to be weak tight, but I'm a noob so take that with a grain of salt.

RC

-RC

[RustedCorpse]

I heard it from sfer first.