Where's your first Red figure on Pokertracker?

[DeeJ]

I am delighted that I have excised all red figures from the General Info screen when it pops up with my stats. Ordered by hand, by default.

All the $Won,Avg/Hand and BB/Hand numbers are green. This is with 16,700 hands.

Scrolling down, we hit a red figure.

Mine is embarrassingly at ATo where although I'm just +ve EV the net figure is down (playing at multiple levels this can happen).

It reads

Hand:ATo Times:149 Win:22.82% $ Won <font color="red"> ($25.50) </font> Avg/Hand <font color="red"> ($0.17) </font> BB/Hand <font color="green"> 0.05 </font> .

Anyone care to trade? Anyone got green all the way down the aces? More intellectually, how low should one be able to achieve green figures?

[I appreciate A2o is weaker than KK. The question is intended to generate discussion about how low Aces I should be aiming to be profitable, and if all Aces are profitable, then how low Kings could go etc]

[Michael Davis]

Given that you're only going to be playing ragged aces in the big blind and the occasional blind-steal, I don't see how anybody could really be making money with these hands when they're offsuited.

-Michael

[Webster]

25,000 hands ATs (0.21) BB per hand.

99 is my 4th best hand 1.25BB per hand

AA
KK
AKs
99
AQs
KQs
worst hand is QTs (0.83) per hand

[DeeJ]

Where is the expert's +/- EV line? A9o? A7o? You don't say....

[Michael Davis]

I don't know, I'm not an expert. In a full ring game, I seriously doubt anyone could make money with A7o.

FWIW, I think a 40-80 expert could probably turn a profit with A8o on steals alone. An expert playing in a 4-8 game could not do this.

-Michael

[davidross]

When I first astarted using PT, this was teh first change to my game. A7 and lower were all losers for me, and I stopped playing them anywhere but on the button, and only first in.

[DeeJ]

So with your gzillion hands logged,are you actually making any money with aynthing A7o,A6o etc or lower?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

You mean they're not supposed to all be red? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[astroglide]

i am winning down to A8o, where all of the offsuit aces begin losing for around -0.02 (tiny) margins. A2o is my only non-tiny loser at -0.15. A7s is a 0.08 loser while all other suited aces but the venerable A2s (-0.03) are profitable.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

I have not won any of the whopping three times I've had AKs for a loss of 3.5BB/hand (I've only got 1585 hands in PT right now).

I also lose with AT, but all other aces are good down to A8o, which I'm -0.16BB/hand on.

I actually was losing overall with AA until my last session - now I'm up to a huge 0.43BB/hand (7 hands) with the ol' rockets.

[TazQ]

A6o -.24 BB/hand

[stoxtrader]

A8o for -.09 BB/hand

[juanez]

A9o
109 times
Won $1.75
Ave per hand (0.02)
BB/Hand (0.01)

[Ric]

AQo 29 times, (.82) BB/hand

Very short-term, but funny to see.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I have not won any of the whopping three times I've had AKs for a loss of 3.5BB/hand (I've only got 1585 hands in PT right now).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure you know this, but given your sample size your hand-specific stats are beyond meaningless.

[BaronVonCP]

My ATo is a .09 winner. That's where it stops though, A9o is (.01) and all the other Axo are similar (.01 - .05). I never play em. I'm sure if I opened up my game more I should be able to squeeze some EV out of A9o and A8o.

All of my AXs are winners! I can't make any money with 22 or 33 however.

[David Ottosen]

At just over 30,000 hands, I am full winner with everything down to A7s which shows an overall win, but a 0.05 BB/hand loss. All pocket pairs other than 77,33, and 22 are winners.

To be fair, there is a great deal of 6 handed play in these 30,000 hands.

Biggest winners in order:

AA 2.63 bb/hand
QQ: 1.87
JJ: 1.81
AQs: 1.52
AJs: 1.35

Biggest loser:

A6s 0.94 bb/hand

[davidross]

THey are still showing losses because of the earlier play. Since I only play them on a steal raise, my guess is that they will never get back to the black.

[RoyalSampler]

Maybe you missed the sarcasm in his post? I didn't think it was that subtle.

No offense meant.

[Kevin]

64,565 hands,
A8s is -.03 (214 hands)
A9o is actually +.04 (18% vol pf - 590 times)
A2s is -0.15 (182 hands)
The other Axs are showing profit, the other Axo below A9 are showing a loss - but pf is &lt;10% and pf not a blind is less than 1% (steal raise, etc.).

All pairs are profitable - except 55 (+$1.50 but -.03 bb/hand, 314 times 55% vol pf) and 44, (+$12.00 but -.02 bb/hand 43% vol pf 298 times)

22 and 33 are actually pretty profitable. (33 +$178.75, +.11 bb/hand, 306 times 34% vol pf, 22 +$121.75, +.09 bb/hand 31% vol pf, 292 times). 33 and 22 play themselves in the those unraised multi-way pots in late position.

My biggest loser, by far is Q10s. I hardly ever play KJo, very careful with KQo and have gotten much more conservative (especially early)with AJo plugging a leak that I found when analyzing the hands in PT.

Q10s, I can't figure out. There have been some horrendous beats (the sample size should have smoothed these out) , but I don't know when to play it, when to dump it, how to manage the queen on the flop. I play it too much like KJs, J10s, and even J9s (which is more profitable because it is a a little out of the playing zone for pairs and wins big with the straight and flush hits). Q10s looks like this - 188 times, -$302.67, -0.33 bb/hand 81% vol pf, 19% pfr (ugh). Not meaning to start a new thread - but any advice on a general strategy with Q10s?

Cheers,
Kevin

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you missed the sarcasm in his post? I didn't think it was that subtle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just, uh, clarifying that he was being sarcastic for those dumb enough to have not picked up on it. Yeah, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
No offense meant.

[/ QUOTE ]

None taken. (sniffle)

[Blarg]

13,553 hands

Ace-suited is profitable, very profitable, all the way through A7s. Except for AQ suited, which is a moderate loser.

Ace-X offsuit is only a winner down through Ace, 10.

KK, KQs, KQo, and KJs, are all winners, and from then on pretty much everthing with a King in it starts to kil me.

BB/100 won goes AA, KK, QQ, KQs, AKo, AJs, AKs. I've won twice as much money with AKo as AKS, have 40% more BB/100 wins, win 4% more often. Yet I win more than 50% more per hand with AKs.

QJs is my biggest loser of all according to money won/lost and by an almost 50% margin compared to the next leading contender, yet QJ offsuit is a very solid winner.

In terms of winning percentages, I only have five winning hands that win more than 50% of the time: AA, KK, QQ, AK offsuit, AK suited, in that order. AKs comes in at 51.28, and the next step down jumps drastically, AQ offsuit jumps to 39.45% wins.

Luckily, it's not just how often you win, but how much you win or lose per hand!

Strangely enough, I seem to do very well with 8,8.

Fun stuff to look over, occasionally useful too. But when I see how drastically my figures can swoop up and down from just one win, it reminds me that even over 13k hands recorded is just a real drop in the bucket. I think until I get at least 50k hands, I'm going to feel a lot of my conclusions are just preliminary. And preferably more like 100k.

[RiverMise]

Stats for 5-10 (6max)

JJ (just got them an unusually high amount compared to other top hands)
AA
KK
AKs
TT
A9o


Worst:
QJo (I dont think I am misplaying this but I will have to take another look)

For 5-10 (6Max) nearly all of my Ax's are profitable except like A2, A3 etc.

[DeeJ]

A8o sounds like a feasible limit. I think it should be possible to make all Axs profitable too, I'm at the wrong PC to check but the Axs figures for me are pretty profitable all the way down I think. It does only take one big hand to sway things with 16k hands though, and Axs are statistically fewer than Axo and subject to far more variance in the short term.

I think I need to tighten up on ATo, which I used to happily play from MP onwards, but now I'm moving it rather closer to the button to open with.

It's also a challenge to play if there's one early limper in MP. What do you do? I fold to a raise everywhere except BB (sometimes SB if it's loose).

[TxSteve]

Well,

I think i win the worst player award then!

my first red is AJo 171 times. 58% win (.21) per hand.

what can i learn from this?

[DeeJ]

You are overplaying it when you don't hit ?

[mosch]

I think you have to read the hands you played with it (both the ones you won, and the ones you lost) to know.

We can't tell from those stats if you've been overplaying it, underplaying it, or if you've just taken a few awful beats. When you're looking for leaks, be sure to look at both the winning and the losing hands, failure to value bet is a cardinal sin.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

A6s and below.
77, 66, 55, 44 (33 &amp; 22 are winners).
A9o and below.

JKo is my biggest loser. Perhaps I do it (er, I mean play it) too often.