Flopping a set and getting check-raised....

[Gomez22]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">SB ($$44.10)</font>
BB ($$8.75)
UTG ($$5.80)
<font color="C00000">Gomez22 ($$35.50)</font>
MP1 ($$29.15)
MP2 ($$25.15)
MP3 ($$11.55)
CO ($$11.45)
Button ($$17.15)

Preflop: Gomez22 is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $.25, Gomez22 calls $.25, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls $.25, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.40) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 bets $1.5</font>, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to $3</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 raises to $35.25</font>, SB calls $32.25.

Turn: ($71.90) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

River: ($71.90) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $71.90
<font color="green">Main Pot: $71.90, between SB and Gomez22.</font>

Thoughts?

[cornell2005]

I feel strongly that raising to a smaller amount is more profitable than pushing.

group possible hands into 3 catagories: flopped straight, straight draw, and all other hands.

your 2 feasible options are: push, or bet half now, half on the turn.

now, for feasible hand 1: flopped straight. clearly he is calling either way. on your side, theres no diffence between pushing and betting half yoru stack. your not folding at any point in the hand no matter what he does if you push 1/2 your stack on the flop. so either way, hes all in and you will get all in.

second possible hand: straight draw.
First, notice he probably wont ever call a 1/2 stack bet on the flop but fold a push for the rest of your stack on the turn. No player would ever do both of these moves back to back. See why? So, again, pushing and betting 1/2 your stack doesnt matter if he has this hand. Somoene might think "well, i want him to fold his straight draw, so pushing is better" Thats not true. First of all, he's not getting proper odds to call his straight draw, second of all a 1/2 stack on the flop and a 1/2 stack on the turn is the same odds wise if you know he will not fold the turn after missing the flop, which here he clearly wont.

Last possible hand(s): all other hands. This includes top pair, high pockets, ect. Now here is where betting 1/2 your stack has advantages over pushing, assuming you are planning to get the rest of it in by the turn. vs QQ, KK, AA, ect, you want him to stay in at all costs and get all his money in by the end of the hand. an all in might fold out 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, ect, as well as A10, ect, where a smaller 1/2 stack bet might not. So here, you are getting weaker hands that are very very behind to get all their stack in by the end, wheras they would have folded to more aggressive flop bet.

Overall, this is a good example illustrating the importantce of understanding the advantages and disadvantages of pushing/overbetting. Here none of the advantages hold and 1 of the disadvantages hold.

[umdpoker]

nice post cornell. i think i actually gained a little knowledge reading it. i now have a new weapon in my arsenal!
thanks

[Gomez22]

Gotcha... very well-explained. Thanks for making such an easily understandable reply....

Yet again, I learn something new and with which I can improve on.....


Thanks again, Cornell.....

'Mez

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel strongly that raising to a smaller amount is more profitable than pushing.

group possible hands into 3 catagories: flopped straight, straight draw, and all other hands.

your 2 feasible options are: push, or bet half now, half on the turn.

now, for feasible hand 1: flopped straight. clearly he is calling either way. on your side, theres no diffence between pushing and betting half yoru stack. your not folding at any point in the hand no matter what he does if you push 1/2 your stack on the flop. so either way, hes all in and you will get all in.

second possible hand: straight draw.
First, notice he probably wont ever call a 1/2 stack bet on the flop but fold a push for the rest of your stack on the turn. No player would ever do both of these moves back to back. See why? So, again, pushing and betting 1/2 your stack doesnt matter if he has this hand. Somoene might think "well, i want him to fold his straight draw, so pushing is better" Thats not true. First of all, he's not getting proper odds to call his straight draw, second of all a 1/2 stack on the flop and a 1/2 stack on the turn is the same odds wise if you know he will not fold the turn after missing the flop, which here he clearly wont.

Last possible hand(s): all other hands. This includes top pair, high pockets, ect. Now here is where betting 1/2 your stack has advantages over pushing, assuming you are planning to get the rest of it in by the turn. vs QQ, KK, AA, ect, you want him to stay in at all costs and get all his money in by the end of the hand. an all in might fold out 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, ect, as well as A10, ect, where a smaller 1/2 stack bet might not. So here, you are getting weaker hands that are very very behind to get all their stack in by the end, wheras they would have folded to more aggressive flop bet.

Overall, this is a good example illustrating the importantce of understanding the advantages and disadvantages of pushing/overbetting. Here none of the advantages hold and 1 of the disadvantages hold.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless he's a horrible player, he will not call a significant 3-bet with a naked gutshot. i do agree that putting in a smaller raise is the way to go though for the reason cornell gave: you don't want to scare off a hand like a9 or a8.