best tourney book?

[fireman664]

what would everyone recomend. I have Sklansky's TPFAP, What about T.J.'s?

[The Prince]

Hi,

the perfect book has still not been published. But TPFAP is by far the best to really get an idea on how to adjust your play to tournaments.

Cloutier's book is ok, if you are starting out. After some experience, it won't do you any good. But I started by reading this book, and it helped me. It goes into more details like specific hands, but it is not as good as TPFAP.

Regards,

Nicolas Fradet (The Prince)
www.wptinsider.com (http://www.wptinsider.com)

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
what would everyone recomend. I have Sklansky's TPFAP, What about T.J.'s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would wait until the new NL tourney book by 2+2 comes out later this year.

I'll probably get crucified for this, but other than a few very important concepts from TPFAP, I didn't get much out of the book. It had tons of limit HE examples, and much of the book was dedicated to changing your play from ring games to tourney play. As far as basic NL strategy and specific examples, it was a little lacking, IMO.

I think if you really want to learn, you can do it for free from a world champion. Just do a search from the last 4 years for Fossilman's posts.

[digdeep]

Sossman, I just finished that book and I felt the same way; I didn't get much from it. Are you talking about searching for Fossilman on this site; I tried and didn't get any results. Let me know how I might find that information, or any additional information that will be helpful for No'Limit Tournaments.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about searching for Fossilman on this site

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Greg posts here quite often. Do a search for Greg Raymer (Fossilman). Make sure you go back a year or so at least.

[kenstall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about searching for Fossilman on this site

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Greg posts here quite often. Do a search for Greg Raymer (Fossilman). Make sure you go back a year or so at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try 'Greg (fossilman)', including Raymer doesn't seem to produce any results.

[woodguy]

Best thing I got from TJ's book was TJ's avoidance of any draw of any kind. It helped fix a leak I had.
From what I heard, Mason has convinced Dan Harrington to write a book about NL tourney's. That will be worth a purchase.
Regards,
woodguy

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what would everyone recomend. I have Sklansky's TPFAP, What about T.J.'s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would wait until the new NL tourney book by 2+2 comes out later this year.

I'll probably get crucified for this, but other than a few very important concepts from TPFAP, I didn't get much out of the book. It had tons of limit HE examples, and much of the book was dedicated to changing your play from ring games to tourney play. As far as basic NL strategy and specific examples, it was a little lacking, IMO.

I think if you really want to learn, you can do it for free from a world champion. Just do a search from the last 4 years for Fossilman's posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with this.

[tripdad]

the screen name is ........Greg (FossilMan)

be sure to put the space between Greg and (FossilMan), and capitalize the "M" in FossilMan.

cheers!

[paland]

[ QUOTE ]
Sossman, I just finished that book and I felt the same way; I didn't get much from it. Are you talking about searching for Fossilman on this site; I tried and didn't get any results. Let me know how I might find that information, or any additional information that will be helpful for No'Limit Tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with both of you. The things that he mentions are things that I already new. And he does dwell on limit tourneys too much. Does anybody play those?

[SossMan]

They used to be quite common...they are much less so now with all the NL on TV.

[Sam T.]

I did for a while, but found that after playing and getting used to NL, limit or pot limit doesn't stack up. It is much slower (it takes poor players and maniacs longer to bust out), and can be incredibly frustrating because you can't use your chips as leverage in the same way. Flop TPTK, and want to make someone pay to draw another card to their pocket twos? Tough luck, because he's calling your bet of t50.

I realize it's important to be flexible when you play, but I felt like I was fighting with one hand tied behind my back.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop TPTK, and want to make someone pay to draw another card to their pocket twos? Tough luck, because he's calling your bet of t50.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's backwards.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif In limit, you don't have to worry nearly as much about the 22 because you don't have to pay off as much when the draw hits. People will get to the flop with 22 less frequently in limit, too.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif You should be happy when someone calls without the right odds.

[schwza]

my biggest complaint about TPFAP (besides the fact it didn't exclusively look at NLHE) was that it assumes you're very good at ring games. this is fine in the beginning of the tourney when there are deep stacks, but i never play in ring games when everyone but the biggest stacks have under 15 or 20 BB's. but yeah - that book was disappointing.

[eMarkM]

[ QUOTE ]
Just do a search from the last 4 years for Fossilman's posts

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, good idea. You can start here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/dosearch.php?Cat=&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All _Forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=1 4&Limit=25&where=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&o ldertype=&daterange=&bodyprev=&Name=332). The link goes to the oldest post on the regular server. Since this only goes back six months or so, you have to tap into archive site (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/dosearch.php?Cat=&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=64&Limit=25&where=& newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&daterang e=&bodyprev=&Name=332) to go back further. This link goes back to when they first switched to this format, around 9/02. Work your way forward using the Previous link. Anything older than that, I think you'll have to manually search on the archive page (http://www.twoplustwo.com/archives.html). That has posts from 2000-01.

What I recommend you do is go to all the "situational" advice he gives on this board. Go to his post, but before you read it, go to the original question posted. Read it and try to figure out yourself what should be done. Then read Fossilman's response. Not that Greg's advice is perfect in all cases (nor am I one to judge this), but this is a very good way to improve your tourney thinking. There are literally hundreds of Q&As here with the current World Champ for you to peruse.

[ThorGoT]

EMarkM, that is incredibly helpful. Thanks.

[MAxx]

The only 2 Tourney books I have TPFAP and TJ's as I heard they were the best. I was a little dissapointed b/c I hoped I would learn something new that could really improve my game. 99% of it seemed like common sense stuff that I think most of us who are decent Tourney players pick up naturally after playing a little while. Now I admit that I could have glossed over some things, and I intend on rereading them. I just had higher expectations, and think that there is definitely room for improvement.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
my biggest complaint about TPFAP (besides the fact it didn't exclusively look at NLHE) was that it assumes you're very good at ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the book IS "For Advanced Players"

[paland]

I think that one problem is that many of us now have over 300 tourneys under our belt and have as much experience as many of the top pro's. In the past, it took several years to play that many tournaments so now you have quite a few good tourney players out there to compete against.

Now I know some will say that B&M tourneys are different than internet tourneys, but I have found that the internet has better players than the live tourneys I have played in. Well, just look who the World Champ is and that tells you something. (I know, he has experience in both) In fact, quite a few of the last 200 were from internet satelites.

Poker has changed and will never be the same. There is a new changing of the guard.

[RoodyPooh]

[ QUOTE ]
other than a few very important concepts from TPFAP, I didn't get much out of the book. It had tons of limit HE examples, and much of the book was dedicated to changing your play from ring games to tourney play. As far as basic NL strategy and specific examples, it was a little lacking, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what it's supposed to do. I recently read this book, and it clearly says that in the beginning of the book. It specifically says it will not teach you how to play good poker. It is for players who already know how to play winning poker, but lack the understanding of how to play in tournaments. I thought it was a great book, and helped me understand tourney play alot more.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my biggest complaint about TPFAP (besides the fact it didn't exclusively look at NLHE) was that it assumes you're very good at ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the book IS "For Advanced Players"

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, thank you for taking part of my post out of context. my gripe was that i am not advanced in the slightest in playing NLHE ring games where most people have 15 or 20 BB's (because no one plays that shallow).

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
other than a few very important concepts from TPFAP, I didn't get much out of the book. It had tons of limit HE examples, and much of the book was dedicated to changing your play from ring games to tourney play. As far as basic NL strategy and specific examples, it was a little lacking, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what it's supposed to do. I recently read this book, and it clearly says that in the beginning of the book. It specifically says it will not teach you how to play good poker. It is for players who already know how to play winning poker, but lack the understanding of how to play in tournaments. I thought it was a great book, and helped me understand tourney play alot more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.
I still think reading this forum and posting hands and responding and corresponding and thinking and discussing the game on 2+2 is better than any book will ever be able to do, IMO.