Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey

[Mayhap]

I'm new to poker and trying to learn as much as I can as fast as I can. I play hold em and notice that if I strictly adhere to Sklansky's hand groupings by position I ...
1. Pretty much insure a profitable session every time.
2. Don't play very many hands at all.
3. FEEL (yes, I only play on line) that people are annoyed with me.
4. Don't get much action when I play.
5. Have people do wild raising on me when I limp.
Therefore I found I need to change my image; to un-rock as it were and remain profitable.
So here is how I go about it. What I'm looking for is feedback on what I'm doing right/wrong and any extra ideas you might
have.
1. When there are consistently few pre-flop raises; I loosen up on my starting requirements up front.
2. I see the flop with just about any reasonable hand when I'm unraised in late postion.

Just doing these things seems to erase my 'destestable rock' image even though I still get to fold a lot of hands.

Are there ways to expand/improve on this?
Any cautions?

Thanks,

/Mayhap

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm new to poker...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Any cautions?


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't make changes until you're sure you're a winning player.

[Mayhap]

TY Jeff
/M

[IlliniRyRy]

Your image is practically meaningless in low limit games, forget about that. The fact that other people are raising you all the time when you limp or folding when you raise is all just an illusion. Nobody pays attention, they're not that receptive, trust me. Just play premium hands and don't bother bluffing, they'll pay you off.

[Mayhap]

TY Sir
/M

[sthief09]

1. Pretty much insure a profitable session every time.

impossible

2. Don't play very many hands at all.

they vastly underrate the values of pairs and suited aces (I play them from any position in a loose game) and overrate the values of suited connectors, which should be played under much more specific circumstances (good position, guaranteed multi-way pot) than pairs and suited aces. you can profitably play a lot of hands.

3. FEEL (yes, I only play on line) that people are annoyed with me.

doubtful

1. When there are consistently few pre-flop raises; I loosen up on my starting requirements up front.

ok...

2. I see the flop with just about any reasonable hand when I'm unraised in late postion.

well, I don't know what you mean by "reasonable" (QTo is still a muck, but it seems like a "reasonable" hand), but this is definitely true. you should play a lot looser late than early. you should also consider how many people limp to you. if there's a 3 limpers I'm mucking QJo without hesitation and playing 87s. on the other hand, if there's one limper, I'll play QJ and muck 87s.

Just doing these things seems to erase my 'destestable rock' image even though I still get to fold a lot of hands.

keep in mind that HEFAP was written for middle limit games. their suggestions are too tight for a low limit game. you can still win, but there are a ton of seemingly borderline hands (like Axs) that can be hugely profitable from any position.


Are there ways to expand/improve on this?

raise more. do you use Poker Tracker? I'm wondering just how tight you are, and how much you raise preflop.

basically you need to learn the value of certain hands so that you can make the decision of whether it's right to play. if you're in an extremely tight game, it might be best to raise 88 UTG and muck 66. however, if the game was loose then you'd limp with 88 down to 22. if you just go by their hand rankings then you're not considering the players in the game. the next step is learning to make your decisions based on the players at your table rather than a chart.

[Mayhap]

TY Sir for that rich reply.
/M

[znup]

I'd like to use my first post to say TY. Very insightfull.

[cnfuzzd]

everyone else has already said the smart things, so i will add this.

remember, the joy and blessing of online poker is not so much the fishiness of it all, although that is nice too, but also the fact that you are playing so *many* gosh-darned hands with all those lovely fish. You neednt get tons of action every time you get those tier 1-3 hands, because you are going to be seeing them a lot, especially if you are multi-tabling, which i actually dont recommend until you get more experience under your belt. Dont worry about not getting enough action, you are still profiting.

peace

john nickle

[ZeeJustin]

I agree with almost everything Sthief says. He seems to overvalue Axs though. Regardless of whether or not it's profitable for him, I think you, as a beginner, should definatey stay away from this hand unless you are in late position or there are a couple callers ahead of you. Axs is very hard to play post flop, and most players lose money with Axs in early position.

[Joe826]

Good post man. I'm just curious though, why do you hate suited connectors so, but really like Axs? Just because of the high-card value?

[jpym84]

FWIW I'm also relatively new to poker and I've been playing Axs very profitably (usually just MP or LP, but sometimes in EP in a very loose/passive game). Just make sure you're able to lay down a top pair/bad kicker if you dont flop a flush draw.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with almost everything Sthief says. He seems to overvalue Axs though. Regardless of whether or not it's profitable for him, I think you, as a beginner, should definatey stay away from this hand unless you are in late position or there are a couple callers ahead of you. Axs is very hard to play post flop, and most players lose money with Axs in early position.

[/ QUOTE ]


at most Party 3/6 and lower tables Axs UTG is profitable. I don't think there's a question about that. At 5/10 and up (5/10 is as high as I've played) I wouldn't make that limp. But the 3/6 games are loose preflop and usually pretty passive, so you can get 3-4 others in the pot with you. that's all you really need for this hand.

[MicroBob]

sthief's advice is spot-on.

both you and mayhap should read a lot in the ML and SS forums here.

read the hand-histories that are posted and the discussions about those hands.

if you are really analyzing those posts you will probably come to learn very quickly that you were not necessarily playing your hands ideally.

study in the forums and learn.


the idea that you think just pre-flop selection can ensure a winning session each time indicates where you are on this learning curve.
the good news is....it only take a little diligence to catch on to some of the ideas over there if they aren't familiar to you already.


btw, sthief posts in those forums quite a bit as well....as do some other outstanding players (unfortunately, i don't qualify in that group...YET)

[sthief09]

with Axs, you have an ace, which will hold up well in a small pot (if you aren't dominated). if I have A5s UTG and limp, and only one other plus the blinds see the flop, I'm not so worried. if I have 87s in the same situation, I will be worried.

people generally think of these as drawing hands, which they are, but you're going to miss your draws enough times where you need to be able to win with a pair. 54s or 87s winning with a pair is a lot more difficult than A5s.

similarly, some people think of suited connectors as if they're all alike. JTs = 87s = 54s in value. but that's not true. the high card value in JTs makes it a much better hand than 54s.

if there's 6 limpers to me, then I really care that much whether I have 98s or 54s because winning with a pair is going to be difficult. sure, 9s and 8s beats 5s and 4s, but you're not going to get 2 pair often enough for this to be much of a consideration.

(I have to admit I'm a little biased because I've lost so much money with suited connectors, and I'm in the green with every suited ace.)

I'm at work so I rambled a bit there, but I hope you got my point.