Jeezy

[Tommy Angelo]

$40-80 at Bay 101. One player limped. I was on the button with KQ. I raised. Both blinds folded. The limper called. Headsup. The flop came A-K-x. He checked, I checked. The turn was a blank. He checked, I checked. The river was a blank. He bet, I called, I showed, and he mucked.

The play-by-play went like this. When he checked the flop, he looked a little like he intended to fold to a bet, so I put him on either nothing or else he was planning to checkraise. I checked behind on the flop, thereby committing myself to a showdown.

On the turn he checked like he really had nothing. If he had a good hand, and if he was able to hold the bad-hand act so convincingly for two rounds, with two checks and all, well godblessum, he's got me. I'm going to go ahead and put him on nothing.

So I checked behind on the turn, figuring either:

1) He was drawing dead with a hand he would fold with if I bet.

2) I was still in the process of being outplayed.

Either way, a check seemed right.

Right after I checked on the turn, he had eight chips ready, and as soon as the river card appeared, he bet. I called just as fast. He looked at me and let out an exasperated "Jeezy," which I took to mean, "Why didn't you bet on some street somewhere like a normal person and get this pot over with a long time ago instead of practically forcing me to bet the river with squat?" I opened and he mucked.


Tommy

[cpk]

That's either amazingly brilliant or amazing bullshit. In either case, amazing! Usually I can only make such a play on accident.

[badinfluence]

Interesting post.

Flop: I still think you should bet.
I guess you would have to have a pretty strong read to commit another 2 BB to that pot in a call down mode.

To me, limping EP leaves a wide array of hands that can catch on later streets. JT comes to mind as a particularly disastorous possibility ... other possible trouble hands QJ, KJ, other Kx, lower set, etc ... I am sure you know all this.

Turn:
Now that you have checked the flop, I agree with your play. I think your read is pright on here.

River:
Call is easy.

My real question to you is: What did he do that was so indicative that he was going to fold to a flop bet?

[SA125]

It took so long for you to induce that bluff it must have felt like he was giving birth.

[Pokergod]

Good read, good play. The read has to be perfect though because if he had any kind of a draw at all then you made a mistake giving those free cards. I've tried that play and made the mistake of checking them into a monster.

-PG

[Tommy Angelo]

"My real question to you is: What did he do that was so indicative that he was going to fold to a flop bet?"

You really stumped me with this question. Most of my most attentive moments at a poker table are when I'm being checked to. With some players I get nothing to go on. With others I get a lot because they are so in the habit of being first to act with me behind them as the raiser that they are prepared before the flop comes to give up if they miss. So if a guy sends a signal, inadvertently (honestly) or on purpose (deviously) that he is weak, it is the fact that there was a signal at all that tells me that he is either weak or strong, but not in between.

Tommy

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
2) I was still in the process of being outplayed.


[/ QUOTE ]


A synopsis of my poker career.


The last month or two of posts should be strung into one long streaming, jumping, splashing post. Better, I think, to observe the whole river going by in progression, than the piecemeal current we are subject to.

Enjoyable, as always.

-Zeno

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
So if a guy sends a signal, inadvertently (honestly) or on purpose (deviously) that he is weak, it is the fact that there was a signal at all that tells me that he is either weak or strong, but not in between.

Tommy

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a really important statement. Seems so simple, but I hadn't directly thought about that. Learning something every day.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
That's either amazingly brilliant or amazing bullshit. In either case, amazing! Usually I can only make such a play on accident.

[/ QUOTE ]

Recall all the times Tommy check-check-check's with nothing. Then look at this hand. Then begin to understand how it all fits together.

[Jason Strasser]

Hey Tommy,

I understand this post. Wohooo!

Understanding Tommy's post 1...
Lost reading Tommy's post 134 and counting...

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Your PM was very helpful)

[risen]

If your read was that good, why didn't you pop him one on the river for being so bold. You correctly put him on a steal, but I think he has something worth showing down to even take a shot. I think a raise would lend even more weight to your checks later and get you more free cards. (Should anyone be paying attention)

[Senor Choppy]

The pot is 5.5 SBs (assuming 80-40 blind structure, I've never played at this limit). If Tommy is ahead, his opponent has 5, 4, or 2 outs. By giving 2 free cards, he's going to lose this pot between 10-25% of the time, although a 5 outer is pretty unlikely here. So he's giving up between .5 SBs and a little over 1 when this is the case.

However, if his opponent is going to take a shot at the pot on later streets, he gains back 2 SBs. If he's confident that this will happen, he should ALWAYS give his opponent 2 free ones here.

Lastly, if Tommy is behind, he's losing the minimum here.

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif this play.

[David Sklansky]

In my games I play this hand that way more than half the time. Perhaps I should see my doctor.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
In my games I play this hand that way more than half the time. Perhaps I should see my doctor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's funny.

[adios]

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[badinfluence]

glad that i can put out a stumper every now and then, i've never been much of a poster ... more of a lurker here, but i figured i'd get involved to learn a little more myself. your response did not disappoint.

still ... ballsy play. perhaps it is too ABC poker of me, but I still bet.

[Tommy Angelo]

"If Tommy is ahead, his opponent has 5, 4, or 2 outs."

Or none.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Or none.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems pretty likely given your read of the situation. I like the whole hand.

[mike l.]

dear tommy,

you are god.

love, mike l.

ps: why dont you post one where you choke for a change?

[PokerBabe(aka)]

And they say the BABE is weak tight? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Even Gabemeister likes this? OMG, I am mikel. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

LGPG,

Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[andyfox]

"In my games I play this hand that way more than half the time. Perhaps I should see my doctor."

Bravo! LOL /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
In my games I play this hand that way more than half the time. Perhaps I should see my doctor.

[/ QUOTE ]

now there can be nobody who claims you do not have a sense of humor.

-Barron

[Tommy Angelo]

"ps: why dont you post one where you choke for a change?"

Answer one: Prolly for the same reason as Why don't you post one with caps for a change? Drummer beats and such I suppose.

Answer two: Mazing mike. You just made me realize that by filtering away poker pain at the table, I am selectively erasing all memory of my mistakes.

Answer three: Cording to some, I have been.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[tolbiny]

On the river do you bet if checked to... or do you just assume the muck/raise factor at this point as well?

[VeryTnA]

I had this EXACT same hand.
The "blank" on the river gave the limper a set of 7's.
He was nice about it. Thanked me for the free cards and leting him catch up. I said you are welcome. I know it sucks having to pay when the odds are wrong.

[risen]

Tommy would have seen the rivered set of sevens in the opponents soul and folded heroically. You are no Tommy Angelo. Hell if the legend grows a little more, even Tommy Angelo will be no Tommy Angelo.

[samdash]

How is this weak tight? He played it the way to make the most possible money.

[Tommy Angelo]

"How is this weak tight? He played it the way to make the most possible money."

Are you suggesting that "weak-tight" and "make the most money" are mutually exclusive? I didn't think they were. But then, I'm not altogether sure what "weak-tight" means.

Tommy

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Actually, Vehn is the expert on this topic, so maybe we can ask him what it means. Otherwise, Jim Brier (who has been called "weak-tight") might be of some help here. Since I am considered "weak-tight" by some, I already know what it means for me. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

LGPG,

Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif